Supra...killing the 86/BRZ?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS

Who's seriously saying an 86 is faster than the Supra?
Did Toyota lie about 4.1 seconds?

Originally Posted by arkanist

https://jalopnik.com/the-lowest-four...-hp-1831734785

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...der-us-market/

They have a 194hp 4cyl (outside the states). The 86 is quicker than a Supra.

Originally Posted by Delfin

We can finally brag

Obviously in response to the 4 cylinder comment. I have not seen that the US is not getting it confirmed yet, but who knows.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The MT is not dead yet and won't be in the near future. Sure many of the vehicles that still have it are not on this forums wish list but that doesn't mean it is dead. I count around 75 North Americana vehicles that still offer it. There are probably two or three times that many in Europe and Asia.

I think one of the things that will be the "final nail" is the increase in the number of gears to meet mileage regulations and such. There is no way in heck I would want a manual that matches the recent AT gearings of 8 or 10 gears. The F150 I recently had as a loaner had a 10 speed AT transmission. I tried shifting manually, geez what a pain the axle.

I will say though I was sad to see RAM's announcement that they are discontinuing the manual transmission option in their trucks in the next model year. They were the last hold out in the small truck arena.

Besides in 10 years we are all be driving electric vehicles or riding around in autonomous ride shares won't we? Then it won't matter. Probably means I'll have to give up my flying car though, at least that predication came true....oh wait.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jrb363

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Shifting gears on your own is the very definition of a driver. Pointing the steering column in a direction and mashing a single pedal does not make a driver.

Understanding weather, tire and road conditions, knowing when to down or upshift based on vehicle load and terrain combined with previously mentioned attributes...that, at a minimum, is what makes a competent driver...

I think you are confusing a car with a (good) AT with an autonomous vehicle. I have an AT and I can do everything you mention above, I just don't have to use my left leg (although admittedly I do catch myself at times pushing the phantom clutch pedal when shifting gears manually).

Oh and while we are talking about it, there are a lot of systems between you and the road that put you one level back from "pure driving". Even with the nannies turned off there is power steering, fly by wire gas pedals, 100's of other little things that are to some extent "automated" that isolate you from being your definition of a competent driver.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion but I'm entitled to think you are misguided in your belief. That's OK we can still be friends. I'm glad the MT option is still available for those that want it. Heck, I'd love to have a new CTS-V Wagon with an MT, but I also am realist enough to know that companies are going to sell what the majority of what their customers want. They are willing to feed the enthusiasts if there is money (or marketing advantage that leads to money) to be made.

I think the only way the MT survives long-term is if it is made a premium option. That's what I would do if I ran a car company. I'm guessing at this point it would actually cost more per unit to design and deliver a new MT than a new AT.

[PetrolioBenzina]

If you think the Supra is ugly, just wait. If there is a next-gen 86, it will look even worse.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

If you think the Supra is ugly, just wait. If there is a next-gen 86, it will look even worse.

And Corolla. And Priuis. And just about all Toyotas until they get away from the droopy nose, fake vent, ultra aggressive phase they are in.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by jrb363

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Shifting gears on your own is the very definition of a driver. Pointing the steering column in a direction and mashing a single pedal does not make a driver.

Understanding weather, tire and road conditions, knowing when to down or upshift based on vehicle load and terrain combined with previously mentioned attributes...that, at a minimum, is what makes a competent driver.

If I was simply a fan of shifting gears I'd get a motorcycle. Much cheaper, faster and nearly unlimited options. Yet that's not what I'm interested in. At all. Understanding the dynamics, limitations and mechanical attributes of my car, and myself as a driver, are what matters to me.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

There must have been something wrong with the AT I had, as I was able to all of the above except use my left foot. LOL, muh "driver involvement" can only happen in an MT. I suspect there are a few AT drivers here who could leave you for dead.

[mazeroni]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I just don't see the 86 continuing for another 3 model years with no changes. It would be a 10 year old platform at that point. They are going to have to either update or let it die before then.

Nah, Toyota should challenge the 370z, which is in the 11th year of production. But hey, it is also the 50th anniversary of the Z nameplate, so it would actually be fitting if Nissan finally pulled the plug this year.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

Nah, Toyota should challenge the 370z, which is in the 11th year of production. But hey, it is also the 50th anniversary of the Z nameplate, so it would actually be fitting if Nissan finally pulled the plug this year.

And they still have done nothing about those damned bulbous, protruding, ugly as hell, door handles!

[mazeroni]

LOL? From road and Track's interview with Tada about a manual Supra; he mentions the 86. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/detroit-auto-show/a25909163/toyota-supra-manual-transmission-future-plans/


Tada explained that the potential for a manual Supra is complicated by the positioning of the 86, which, of course, offers a stick shift. "I don't want to sound too business-y, but I also need to support the 86. Looking at the role of the 86 and the role of the Supra, I want to differentiate, make sure they each have their own identity," he said. "If the Supra had a manual transmission, there's nowhere for the 86 to go."

What? Hey, at least he talks about supporting the 86. Whatever that is worth.

[MuseChaser]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

There must have been something wrong with the AT I had, as I was able to all of the above except use my left foot. LOL, muh "driver involvement" can only happen in an MT. I suspect there are a few AT drivers here who could leave you for dead.

I love driving MT. It's not a question of whether or not it makes me a better driver than anyone else, or if MT is better than AT, or any of the other chest-thumping arguments that crop up here and elsewhere. There are great musicians, holding a completely crappy student-line horn, who can play circles around an average musician holding the best instrument in the world; skill is skill. Great players don't always agree what makes a great horn, and to think that one person is "right" is just... well... wrong.


I love driving MT. It's more involving for me, I feel like I have more control in bad conditions (I might not, but I don't care.. I feel like I do), there's less to go wrong mechanically (although that gap's closed a lot, too), more options if things DO go wrong... there's a very long list why I prefer MT especially in cars that are more than appliances. Don't get me wrong.. I appreciate a good appliance.



For me, it will be a very sad day when it becomes impossible to find RWD MT cars. Why? Because I like them. Period.

[MJones_RB]

Countdown to someone buying A new Supra, yanking out the BMW power plant and sticking a 20-year old 2JZ-GTE in there...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by MJones_RB

Countdown to someone buying A new Supra, yanking out the BMW power plant and sticking a 20-year old 2JZ-GTE in there...

or a boxer.

[PetrolioBenzina]

But is sure is "agressive" in its ugliness.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

I love driving MT. It's not a question of whether or not it makes me a better driver than anyone else, or if MT is better than AT, or any of the other chest-thumping arguments that crop up here and elsewhere. There are great musicians, holding a completely crappy student-line horn, who can play circles around an average musician holding the best instrument in the world; skill is skill. Great players don't always agree what makes a great horn, and to think that one person is "right" is just... well... wrong.

I love driving MT. It's more involving for me, I feel like I have more control in bad conditions (I might not, but I don't care.. I feel like I do), there's less to go wrong mechanically (although that gap's closed a lot, too), more options if things DO go wrong... there's a very long list why I prefer MT especially in cars that are more than appliances. Don't get me wrong.. I appreciate a good appliance.

For me, it will be a very sad day when it becomes impossible to find RWD MT cars. Why? Because I like them. Period.

Not my argument, I agree with you. It's the other dude who insists an MT is the sole measure of a driver.