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Old 10-26-2016, 01:33 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switchlanez View Post
I've read somewhere that in their earlier days Harrop sold a rebranded supercharger developed by Edelbrock (for the Camaro I think?). Since then Harrop has been the OEM for Lotus superchargers such as in the Exige and Evora S. I think they also make superchargers for TRD editions of Australian market Toyotas. The latest Lotus Evora 400 makes more power than the Evora S and uses a supercharger OEM'd by Edelbrock. Point is, you can't go wrong with either but I perceive Edelbrock as the veteran in terms of supercharger know-how.
We have never used anyone's tech or engineering for the development of our kit. Thats purely Hearsay.

Yes we are an OEM Supplier to Lotus, Ford and Toyota. We know how to make bits the right way. Harrop is a 62 y/o Engineering company with roots in Motorsport.

Geographically, we're a long way away however our dealer network is growing in the USA, and with impressive results all over the world, its no surprise our competitors need to market aggressively with rebates and other incentives to sell product.
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Old 10-26-2016, 10:40 AM   #16
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Its interesting know one has mentioned the Cosworth kit. I assume its because its more expensive but since the pound has dropped recently, isnt it cheaper now? The kit in the UK is £4k+tax so that's $4900 + shipping and taxes. So why is it still $6500 at rallysport direct?

Here in the UK the Harrop was a similar price to the cosworth kit but since the pound has dropped its more expensive by a few hundred now.
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Old 10-26-2016, 11:19 AM   #17
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Its interesting know one has mentioned the Cosworth kit.
...because everyone is staying on topic and answering the OP's question without derailing the thread...
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Old 10-26-2016, 12:27 PM   #18
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As the OP, I appreciate you bringing up the cosworth. I didn't really consider it for three main reasons: Cost, TVs supercharger selection and packaging.

Of course, cost was the main factor.
The brexit fiasco should be bringing the price down but, as you pointed out, the primary distributor in the United States has not updated pricing.

The smaller TVS900 Eaton unit doesn't have as much overhead as the 1320 used by harrop/edelbrock. The rear inlet on the cosworth kit also leads to more complex intake routing and relocating the throttle body.

That said, I really like the huge A/W cores used by cosworth, and the name recognition/reputation should not be ignored either.

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Old 10-26-2016, 12:53 PM   #19
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After installing both kits i would like to say the following.

Both kits are on Par with an Oem quality expectation.
Both kits install fairly easily, Much of it just falls right into place.

The harrop Kit sits lower than the edelbrock ( a lot of people like this)
The harrop kit has more access to different pulley sizes


Realistically from my stand point both of these kits are great and i have yet to see and issue with either of them. For both of these kits the company's will go out of their way to help you.
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Old 10-26-2016, 01:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armstrom View Post
As the OP, I appreciate you bringing up the cosworth. I didn't really consider it for three main reasons: Cost, TVs supercharger selection and packaging.

Of course, cost was the main factor.
The brexit fiasco should be bringing the price down but, as you pointed out, the primary distributor in the United States has not updated pricing.

The smaller TVS900 Eaton unit doesn't have as much overhead as the 1320 used by harrop/edelbrock. The rear inlet on the cosworth kit also leads to more complex intake routing and relocating the throttle body.

That said, I really like the huge A/W cores used by cosworth, and the name recognition/reputation should not be ignored either.

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You may be best to pop over to the UK forums as Matt the lead engineer on the FA20 program has spoke at length about why they went with the 900 and not the 1320.

In a nutshell though, both are capable of spinning fast enough to max out their boost limit of 1.4Bar on the fa20. The 1230 will be 5% more efficient at that boost but require more engine power to spin. What this ultimately means is both will produce similar numbers. Its discussed at length with input from a few engineers but basically its was a close call but the 900 got the nod because its working smack bang in the middle of its efficiency plot in stage 2 mode which will be the most common configuration.

As far as front vs rear inlet. The rear inlet was the only option when they were designing the kit. Front loading is nice that's for sure.

Regarding IATs Ive been on a few trackdays with a chap with a harrop. Hes see's around +25C over ambient and I see around +15C over ambient, both at a similar power level. The engineers at Cosworth specified the cooling system to have enough heat rejection to run +25 iats at 380hp when running max boost.

Also discussed was how cosworth developed the calibration which comes with the kit. They had the engine on a dyno cell, not in the car, on a proper engine test bench. They had individual cylinder pressure sensors as well as individual widebands on each exhaust port. They adjusted fueling and timing offsets to balance it all out and then set the boost level required to meet the maximum cylinder pressure determined by their analysis of the rods.

They also used high end knock sensing equipment.

This is proper engine development and what you will find any proper engine design house doing.

You do get what you pay for, but it looks like you guys could be getting a bargain! I suspect the prices will drop when they make an order for new stock if the £ stays low.
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarropOz View Post
We have never used anyone's tech or engineering for the development of our kit. Thats purely Hearsay.

...Harrop is a 62 y/o Engineering company with roots in Motorsport.
This might be what I read from http://www.g8board.com/forums/5-v8-e...ck-g8-kit.html when I was researching your name vs Edelbrock:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrix-Engineering View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radrace19
I am pretty sure Harrop just uses a custom pulley on the Edelbrock Camaro superchareger, then just uses the vette pulley system parts.
You are correct..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brad02ss
The Harrop Stealth Force is an Edelbrock kit but would be at least $10k. An Edelbrock E-Force for the Camaro is $7k, what will it take to make that work for the G8 GT, edit, answered my question, simple little part it seems you can't get:
http://g8gt.blogspot.com/2012/03/sup...arrop.html?m=1
Just what I've read (not saying they're right).

There must have been some Harrop/Edelbrock sharing going on in the past based on your website http://www.harropperformance.com/comp-associated.php:
Quote:
Harrop is proud to collaborate with Edelbrock for the release of our Stealth Force® Supercharger System. In the press release for the Stealth Force® System, Edelbrock, LLC Chairman, Vic Edelbrock stated "Harrop Engineering is synonymous with quality engineered performance products that deliver real performance. They carry the same philosophies as Edelbrock - make quality products that bolt-on and deliver lasting performance. Their engineering expertise expands Edelbrock's supercharger opportunities into the Australian market; a loyal customer base of real performance enthusiasts."

Founded in 1938, Torrance-based Edelbrock, LLC is recognized as one of the USA's premier designers, manufacturers and distributors of performance replacement parts for the automotive and motorcycle aftermarkets. Edelbrock produces their core products in the United States of America using state-of-the-art equipment in their world class manufacturing facilities. Edelbrock, LLC encompasses six locations in Southern California totalling more than 500,000 square feet.
If Harrop is 62 years old and Edelbrock is 78, both are veterans. If Harrop made their TVS1320 kit CA smog legal, I would have picked it over E-Force for its looks and because of Harrop's affiliation with Toyota.
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Old 10-26-2016, 03:18 PM   #22
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Another one from http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=270469&page=3:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 67motorcat
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntgome1
And the STEALTH FORCE looks just like the E-Force.
It is a Edelbrock head unit licensed to Harrop for sales in Australia.

But with their accessories to accommodate Right hand drive.
Googling "harrop stealth force/edelbrock e-force" yields correlated results: https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...lbrock+e-force
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:47 PM   #23
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I love to watch Vendors dance!!!!



TRL, thanks for sharing those bullet points. There were a few that jumped off the screen if I decide to go this route.
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Old 10-27-2016, 01:20 AM   #24
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If Harrop is 62 years old and Edelbrock is 78, both are veterans. If Harrop made their TVS1320 kit CA smog legal, I would have picked it over E-Force for its looks and because of Harrop's affiliation with Toyota.
Haha, Harrop got Switch snoop'n. I'm sure their reply was more of a marketing statement than saying you are lying. Working in a similar industry, tech gets shared and traded all the time (just look at our cars!). Half of my company's customers are competitors that sell our products relabeled as theirs. Sure, we did the development, but they also do their homework, working with us and testing what we give them to make sure we meet their specs.

Either way, both are reputable companies and I'd buy their products (main reason I got the Edelbrock was CARB). I'd say let's keep the "reputation" talk to a minimum and compare the two kits by definable & measurable merits ie ease of install, over all performance numbers, data logs etc.
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Old 10-27-2016, 01:55 AM   #25
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Competition between companies is what the market needs. We want them to make better and better products. It's healthy for the consumers.

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Old 10-27-2016, 10:37 AM   #26
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Competition between companies is what the market needs. We want them to make better and better products. It's healthy for the consumers.

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This is true but on the internet and forums it doesn't take much for a constructive and objective conversation to escalate into a trash thread. Would really like to avoid this as I can see the embers starting to glow. Lets stay on topic and talk objectively about the products not the companies. Just to be clear I am agreeing with you
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Old 10-27-2016, 11:12 AM   #27
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This is true but on the internet and forums it doesn't take much for a constructive and objective conversation to escalate into a trash thread. Would really like to avoid this as I can see the embers starting to glow. Lets stay on topic and talk objectively about the products not the companies. Just to be clear I am agreeing with you
Agreed, I don't think either company has to defend their reputation at this point. I think it's clear to anyone who spends even the minimum time researching that these two companies have stellar customer feedback and both products are very solid offerings. My goal with this thread was to provide a more technical comparison in terms of heat management, packaging, ease of installation, etc...

To that end, and in an effort to get things back on track, here are some of my observations related to the installation of the two kits. Keep in mind this is all based on reading installation instructions and discussions with others. I DO have a Harrop kit in my possession but have not yet done the install. These are just some of the high-points I've distilled from this discussion and my own observations so much of this has already been mentioned in this thread or elsewhere.

Edelbrock:
  • More involved install: Cutting hoses, extra brackets, etc... Just more "parts" in general.
  • Requires removing some stock sound deadening (injector covers and hood liner)
  • Prevents the use of pretty much all aftermarket strut tower braces due to height of kit
  • Modular design makes it more reasonble to service. The supercharger is a standard eaton housing bolted to the custom "hat"
  • Much more complete instructions
  • Cheaper pulley upgrades (much cheaper!)
Harrop:
  • Low part count simplifies installation. The only CRITICAL parts are the SC/Manifold assembly, heat exchanger, pump, idler pulley and wiring harnesses. Everything else can be replaced with standard parts (hoses, clamps, etc...) if needed.
  • Manifold design retains stock MAP sensor so standard upgrades with Omni sensors is possible.
  • Custom designed supercharger housing integrated into the manifold. This makes the manifold much lower profile but also means you can't just bolt a replacement SC unit on (doubtful this will ever be an issue)
  • Retains all factory sound insulation
  • Standard air filter size/location so service is easy (two clips rather than a bunch of screws) and cheap.
  • Needs more complete installation guide (the community should be able to cover the gaps here)
  • Expensive to upgrade pulleys (~$130 each) I could see the aftermarket stepping in to make alternatives to this though, it's not a complex part.
  • Does require permanent modification of the throttle body (cutting off/removing coolant hose barbs) so it will not be possible to go back to 100% stock setup without replacing the throttle body.

I think those are the high points
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Old 10-27-2016, 12:48 PM   #28
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Quote:
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...Details regarding installation differences

I think those are the high points
Unsure the installation procedure changes much either way. If you are a competent person either kit is easily self installed. The points included seem fair enough, although retaining the stock MAP sensor is a minus, as it should be replaced.
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