RS*R Black-I Installed

[Oh Damn Andrew]

For the last 6-8 months, our FR-S had been on Eibach Sportlines and stock shocks. We liked the handling improvement but the car didn't really look lowered until parked next to a stock FR-S and after a while the ride was quite bouncy.





Looking for something that would allow us to lower the car more without the bounciness and sacrificing performance seemed like a pipe dream but after reading reviews, it looked like RS*R was the way to go.



The Sports-I is geared for function over form. The Moto Spec Sports-I is already dialed in for the car, out of the box. The Black-I allows you to slam your car without sacraficing street comfort and track performance. I was told that the Black-i and Sports-i are valved differently and have different spring rates.



Things we have noticed after about 3000 miles on the Black-I suspension.

• The car is about 2.5" lower than stock and has a measured ground clearance of 3.5" from under car tow hook to ground
• The ride is much smoother, almost like driving a sporty Camry
• At full stiffness the only thing we can compare the ride to is a fake boob...stiff and firm
• On stock wheels, the mid section of the exhaust scrapes on speed bumps but the car does not bottom out or scrape at highway speeds or freeway expansion joints
• The car handles nearly flat around corners. On full stiffness there is more tendancy to oversteer but we are still on stock tires.
• Overall, the RS*R Black-I is very impressive for a monotube coil over; quiet with a wide range of adjustment without sacrificing performance.

Read more on our full review here.

[diss7]

I disagree about the car cornering flat.

At that height the roll centre has been significantly affected. The spring rate of the coilover is insufficient to provide resistance to this and as a result the car rolls MORE than stock.

I raised my car from 50-55 mm drop to 35mm drop and this helped a lot.

If you're using these coilovers at the height they're designed for, and still want the car to handle, you need to look at roll centre adjustments, swaybars with increased roll resistance, or both.

[Oh Damn Andrew]

@diss7 You are correct. Saying that the car corners "nearly flat" on stock tires and sway bars may have been an exaggeration but it does feel like it handles significantly flatter than the stock suspension and our previous Eibach Sportline set up...or at least thats what my butt tells me.

The Moto-Spec Sports-I is already dialed in for optimal performance, I will follow up with RS*R on their suggested settings for the Black-I suspension.

[diss7]

The car with this suspension, at 50mm drop, definitely rolls more than stock.
I noticed it on my hill sessions at first. Then at the track where I was having to take corners slower than I could with stock suspension.

This was not tyre related. I used Nitto Invos on the street, and Achilles 123 semi slicks on the track.

With the car raised back up to approx 30mm drop from stock, I feel that the roll is similar to stock, maybe marginally more, but it's certainly significantly less than when I was at 50mm drop.

These are good street coilovers. The comment about not sacrificing track performance is not true. I still can't match my track times I set with stock suspension. I did get close with the 30mm drop setting, but I also had a lot more camber than I had with the stock setup.

One thing I like about these coilovers is they have not made a bump, squeak, or knock since I've had them.

Yes I fell for the "big drop but still track performer marketing" real world unbiased experience suggests other wise.

I have a front roll centre correction kit coming, and am exploring options for rear roll centre. But deep down I know that this is the 3rd set of suspension I have bought that still has not been able to out handle the stock suspension.

I'll be getting Ohlins or Tein SRCs next. Two coilovers I was considering before falling for these coilovers.

[diss7]

Also, I realise I'm attacking your review; but don't take it personally, I'm not intentionally being an ass.

But at the same time, your review comes across to me as either being written by someone without any "feel" for the car (because the roll increase was so significant, to say it wasn't tells me you can't feel it; Or, you're sponsored or have received a discount on the product to give a provide a positive review; Or, you're simply trying to feel better about the purchase you have made; or a combination of the above.

Also, statements like "optimal setting" are laughable.

[Enraged21]

I want to get these coilovers as well but I would go the same route to correct the roll centre down the line. I wonder how @robispec corrected his rear roll center? If he's lowered 3"

[diss7]

Originally Posted by Enraged21

I want to get these coilovers as well but I would go the same route to correct the roll centre down the line. I wonder how @robispec corrected his rear roll center? If he's lowered 3"

Lcas at the front, and he's probably changed the arm mount locations on the subframe.

[Moto-P]

OK I just found this thread and I'd really like to clarify a couple of things.

The Black-i is a STREET specification coil over system, which is designed to satisfy the users who are into the fashionable trend of lowering a car extensively for the visual and stylistic elements. On an Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 siblings, like most other cars, do have very inherent issued that is outside of the shocks and struts, such as dynamic and static alignment going excessively out of performance oriented parameters.
And one should ALWAYS know going in, that ANY suspension drop that is as excessive as over 40mm in ride height, and modified with shocks and springs only, is going to have decreased levels of performance. This is because the suspension arms, various alignment links, sheer space under the wheel housing, and other factors will reach a point where the ideal requirements are not met. The Black-i are designed for those who will ignore or further modify on his/her own, about the performance aspect, as there are some enthusiasts, who simply want a very visually stunning car, that can be driven comfortably on the public roads.
That being said, the highest setting of the Black-i is near 40mm, so at this height that is closer to normal, the Black-i does retain the vehicle's alignment quite well, and can serve as normal suspension, though it isn't the primary role for this... The Black-i was designed for people who just wants to go lower than this. Which is why the spec starts at 40mm below to a whopping 55~80mm below, which at maximum drop, is in a territory of requiring cutting and welding, and lots of suspension arm modifications too in various places.

Now that being said, so why are Black-i available then? If all it does is decrease performance?
It is because it isn't catered to the folks who want ultimate performance or normal functionality. It is catered to those who love the hot rod sled, the lowered to the max look, just as there are those who love to set cars up on airbags, or cut and hack a truck to drop a body or put gull-wing doors on the cars. There is nothing wrong with choosing to do that, and Black-i are designed for those who go beyond the normal parameters to have that look, the stance, and to help people who do this, to find the best possible ride on such goals that have very limited suspension stroke, and out of spec dynamic alignment, to have the most decent ride so it is at least useful still, as a street car. It is designed as a capable tool and part to handle a drop that is bolt-on street-able spec, at 40~45mm or so and still be a comfortable street car with stunning looks. And just like Sports-i, the track-ready sibling that can take to the performance edges, this Black-i is designed to go beyond that for those who want to delve further into styling edges, by further going into that realm by fabricating arms, hammering and cutting, and fabricating their own rides to extremes in style in the very different world of custom-cars, and if one fancies, correcting all of the inherent alignment issues even at this height with highly extensive mods in other areas, to actually make it handle at ridiculous height too, as seen in some of the highly modified D1 cars with rails just skimming the ground... But, as for simple bolt-on, one must always be aware that there are critical parameters which can't be overcome simply by installing coil-overs, and with that in mind, if Black-i is the only component being used, there are limits to what can be done.

So please don't make any assumptions whatsoever that the Black-i is good for any motorsports activity. It isn't designed for that at all. It is a good product for the enthusiasts and builders who build show cars, and enjoy a road car that is extremely low, and willing to live with limitations inherent to stock chassis components, or do much more to the cars to make things work.


The Sports-i is designed around a very different principle... I have optimized the Sports-i to be a very capable road vehicle, with road manners, communication, tactile response, and overall performance. This is why the Sports-i with different specifications of piston length, valve rates, spring rates, and geared to perform on road comfortably and has the upper ceiling to accommodate track uses, and optional rates to take it even more towards motorsports oriented uses.


These two coilover systems are VERY different in goals and targeted intended use.
As such, the mentions and promotions, accolades should never overlap for the two very distinct products, as they aim to do very different things to a very different types of enthusiasts.

While the mono-tube patented design is very capable and ideal for use in all of RSR's products, and is the type of design RSR takes pride in building in-house. The settings, and application designs are very different for each product goal, and each vehicle applications. And while other suspension makers might mention otherwise, and sell you a single product that can do it all.

As a outside consultant, and assistant R&D engineer for RS-R, I feel that all-mighty, do-it-all suspension is all smoke and mirrors of marketing by others and is only possible on Alladdin's Magic Carpet.
For the rest of us, we simply cater to a very focused and well-informed audience, with goals that are pin-point and realistic.
This is why we have two very distinct coil-over lineup for the FT86 and other cars. So that each can do the job it was intended very well, and not claim be the magic solution that will cover true track performance, and be a stunning rod-sled.

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by Enraged21

I want to get these coilovers as well but I would go the same route to correct the roll centre down the line. I wonder how @robispec corrected his rear roll center? If he's lowered 3"

Originally Posted by diss7

Lcas at the front, and he's probably changed the arm mount locations on the subframe.

RobiSpec front LCA with roll center adjustment he designed and manufactured!

Thank you Moto for an awesome explanation and clarification!!

[Sargy]

Thanks for the reassuring explanation!

[Enraged21]

Originally Posted by RehabJeff86

RobiSpec front LCA with roll center adjustment he designed and manufactured!

Thank you Moto for an awesome explanation and clarification!!

yeah which corrects the front. I was reffering to the rear.

[RehabJeff86]

Originally Posted by Enraged21

yeah which corrects the front. I was reffering to the rear.

Oh i see, he didnt correct the rear, but i know u can by adding inserts at the subframe bushing. Seems like the front roll center is more important, not sure the reason


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[hfcman]

Hi @diss7 and @Moto-P,

I have purchased and recieved a Black*i, however, my main purpose was to have better performance rather than looks. I feel that I have purchased the wrong coilovers, at what height setting would you suggest me to go with?

[diss7]

If you are after performance over looks, don't install them and see if the vendor will swap then for sports-i's