Base Cayman vs BRZ

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by fatoni

the cayman is probably better at being the frs than the frs is and its definitely better at being the cayman.

The Cayman is heavier.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving heavy cars,
then yes, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

Cayman has more power.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving muscle cars,
then yea, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The Cayman is supposed to be more a GT car for long commute. .

Hard to think of 2900 lbs. and stiff suspension as a GT car.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

The Cayman is heavier.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving heavy cars,
then yes, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

Cayman has more power.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving muscle cars,
then yea, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

If you want to harp on means rather than ends we can talk about how you think the Honda fit is better than the frs. Sounds dumb right? But your argument suggests it.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I just wanted to mention that all Caymans, from 2006-present, have the exact same transmission gear ratios and final drive. It's annoying as hell because 1st and 2nd gears are way too tall, and 5th and 6th gears are too short. As Car and Driver recently stated, it's like having a transmission full of 3rd and 4th gears. And you better believe Porsche did this intentionally to keep it less competitive with the 911. (BTW I'm talking about the manual transmission, not PDK. Also I'm referring to the 6sp manual. Earlier Caymans came standard with a 5sp)

As far as Cayman resale values (looking down the road), resale value for the S models will be higher. Most people (for better or worse) prefer the S model, or GTS, etc). The base models are less desirable.

OP, what model year S2000 did you own? Because I owned an AP2 for 4 years (was my first RWD car) and I didn't think the handling on track or off was remotely "tricky" as you described it.

I rode with a guy in a Cayman GT4 for an autocross run and the tall gearing is especially painful in that environment. The car felt like it only had 280hp despite having 385.

Same day, rode with another guy in his JDM RX-7 Twin Turbo and that thing has beastly acceleration in a straight line because it's geared very close to the twins with 350hp.

[GrantedTaken]

Originally Posted by fatoni

If you want to harp on means rather than ends we can talk about how you think the Honda fit is better than the frs. Sounds dumb right? But your argument suggests it.

No, the Honda Fit does not have sports steering and sports suspension.
They are nothing alike.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

No, the Honda Fit does not have sports steering and sports suspension.
They are nothing alike.

My point is that you are cherry picking points to talk about to support your opinion instead of forming an opinion based on what you observe.

[Capt Spaulding]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Hard to think of 2900 lbs. and stiff suspension as a GT car.

It's funny. I can't speak to the Cayman, but my wife and I (in our 60s) drove my '15 BRZ on a 4k mile two week road trip last summer. It was one of our more relaxing trips in years. We kept the daily mileage to between 500-550. The car was more comfortable (better seats/smoother ride) than her Camry SE. Plenty of luggage space for two. You could carry on a reasonable conversation at 80ish mph. And, when we got to the Tale of the Dragon (and the other roads in the area) it was quite at home.

[SUB-FT86]

I personally think the 86 and Cayman are the "perfect sized" sports cars on the market. I think they fall right in that area where it's small enough but not too small like a Miata/4c, but big enough but not too big like a 2 series or a larger coupe.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

Hard to think of 2900 lbs. and stiff suspension as a GT car.

I said more in comparison to the BRZ. It has a more uprated interior, better sound insulation, better gearing. The suspension is stiff, but not uncomfortable in good quality roads. This is a European car after all and most people buy them here as grand tourers. Only disadvantage is the space with the 2 seats, but if you want 2+2 there is always the 911.

[switchlanez]

Porsche has gradually strayed from its racing DNA in favor of luxury performance. Lotus and the Alpine A110 (see this) have picked up where Porsche's old trajectory left off. I don't think it's that bad, but certain aficionados (anyone know 86 Chief Engineer Tada-san's old friend and spiritual father of the new 86, Moto?) feel completely abandoned by the Porsche brand's new direction.

FR-S remains a solid candidate even after $10k in FI and supporting mods. $35k in, 0 on the odo, and a more visceral experience. Akin to old school, lighter P-cars of decades past, I imagine. (Guys, watch Wheelman on Netflix--a hero car done better than any car film, purposefully modded and not Japanese!) Depreciation hit will be instant but not terrible considering cost of entry is already low plus won't be hard to sell. But do we honestly buy these cars to worry about as investment assets or as toys at our disposal?

I started a diehard purist for the 86's high-revving momentum car purpose vowing not to FI. ~4 years later (my natural attention span for any car), my eyes strayed toward other cars. But I calculated that a few upgrades and FI would yield on par performance and spare me the depreciation/tax hits from selling/buying and doubts from being an original owner to a used car buyer. Now 2 years after those mods, still feels fresh with years of enjoyment ahead. Like I bought a completely different car. 2 for the price of a little more than one AND kept it longer (6 years) than any previous car (record was 5). There's a certain joy in experiencing this improvement delta (aka "build") over years. Building a Cayman may have a similar thrill; maybe not as pronounced/attainable. But if you want it bought not built and newness to expire in 4 years, go Cayman. (I might be self-validating here lol)

Plot twist: Seriously wait for the Supra. Twice as rigid and lower CoG than 86 via cleverly mounted steering rack, ~3000-3200 lbs, "perfect" 50:50 weight distribution, potential 718S killer(!):

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDsOyC0GSqw"]2019 Toyota Supra Mk V Testing on Nürburgring Nordschleife! - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by fatoni

My point is that you are cherry picking points to talk about to support your opinion instead of forming an opinion based on what you observe.

Your first statement is completely vague with no formation leading up to opinion so there's nothing to cherry pick. You left it wide open for interpretation. Fair game for him to form an opinion from scratch and impossible to cherry pick from your non-formulations. Logically (or illogically), you said:

(1) Cayman = FR-S
(2) FR-S = !FR-S
(3) FR-S = !Cayman

Substitute RHS of (2) into RHS of (1) and you get:

(4) Cayman = !FR-S

Substitute LHS of (4) into RHS of (2) and you get:

FR-S = Cayman

Substitute RHS of (1) into RHS of that result and you get:

FR-S = FR-S

You set yourself up to disprove your statement.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by GrantedTaken

The Cayman is heavier.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving heavy cars,
then yes, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

Cayman has more power.
So, unless you mean the FRS is all about driving muscle cars,
then yea, Cayman is better at FRS than FRS.

The Cayman is heavier, but not by much at all. You act like the FRS is a featherweight which it's not.

The Cayman is also relatively underpowered compared to other cars you can buy in that price range.

[bfrank1972]

It sounds like you like the S2000 'feel' better for overall fun - the FR-S/BRZ is pretty close to that car in 'spirit', especially with a few 'must' mods like a good header,tune, and better tires. More visceral, more focused, less refined.

Cayman is a more refined package - more like a comfy BMW than an S2000 (but still with outstanding driving dynamics).

The two are completely different animals - the thing with the FR-S/BRZ, is you really need to drive one with those 'base' mods I mentioned - changes the car pretty significantly for the better IMHO. Cost for the tune & a good header mods will be between $1000 and $2000 based on what you get, which is not too bad (and worth it in my opinion).

Lastly I'd like to re-point out what someone else posted in this thread - practicality. The FR-S/BRZ kills the S2000 & Cayman for practicality. It's such a well thought out car in that regard - the back seats are tight, but I carry my whole family (me, 6'2", wife 5'10", kids 10 and 12 and fairly tall) around in the back seat all the time for trips < 1/2 hour. No leg room but they sit cross legged - the back seats are deep and tilted back allowing them to be relatively comfy for short-moderate distances. Or I can lay the rear seats down and have a ton of trunk space, I've carried 4 18" rims with tires in mine. Try any of that in a Cayman or S2000 Also most cars with a useable 2+2 layout end up looking 'stretched' in the rear, proportions get skewed. The FR-S/BRZ has beautiful proportions.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The Cayman is heavier, but not by much at all. You act like the FRS is a featherweight which it's not.

The Cayman is also relatively underpowered compared to other cars you can buy in that price range.

I've found that nearly 200 lbs difference is pretty significant when you're talking about sub 3000 lb cars to start with. I feel a pretty big difference when I have a passenger. I don't feel it at all when adding a passenger to my Highlander

[Rai-zero]

Regarding BRZ engine tune flash, is this anything that’s not safe or will void the warranty?