Top Gear still hates Tesla

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by korhun

It is unfair to bury Top Gear. They used to shine.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by why?

and you claim to not be a fanboy. lol.

They've made a profit in 3 quarters. I didn't realize that. It's a start in the right direction and maybe they might stand the test of time, although I doubt it.

You can't compare Tesla to Amazon. I know why Amazon doesn't make a profit. They actually explain it. Musk just tweets foolish crap that gets him in trouble.

Why you gotta be a hateboy?

We can link back to this thread in another five years and see where they stand.

Like Amazon, they are reinvesting in infrastructure, so they can be more profitable. Part of that infrastructure will reduce the cost of their cars by scale of industry and efficiency, yet currently, their cars are profitable. Without the government rebates, their cars will still sell at their current prices, and that is the only arguable point.

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sorry, but there is a difference between "making a profit" and being "profitable". I do get the whole reinvestment of profits into the business, and Tesla is building out a lot of infrastructure, but aren't they basically doing that with debt and not rolling profits back into the company?

See above. Essentially, they are capable of selling cars at a profit; ie, they aren't producing cars at a deficit, nor are they producing cars that are reliant on the government rebate to sell them at a competitive rate. They are continuing to reinvest in the company just like Amazon did, but then it will explode. The fact that the Tesla Model 3 was the 3rd best selling car in California (beating the Honda Accord and Toyota Corrolla) at a time when companies like Ford are dropping sedans all together, should really say something about demand for their vehicles. This will only compound when the Model Y enters the market and the Plaid platform.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/22...n-1st-quarter/

Other manufactures will definitely catch up eventually, but Tesla has a significant lead. Plus, Tesla isn't retrofiting electric powertrains into ICE chassis. Once VW finishes developing their electric platform then things will start to shift away from Telsa dominating this segment, but they will still be behind Tesla in engine, battery and infortainment tech. Even in the future, this isn't a niche market anymore. Elon Musk has said that any one manufacture really only has around 10% of the market. When others enter the market then they will probably eat into their own sales by replacing ICE vehicles. The only situation where Telsa loses sales is if they continue to dominate for a long time like Apple did with the iPhone before the market catches up to them, again, like Apple.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

See above. Essentially, they are capable of selling cars at a profit; ie, they aren't producing cars at a deficit, nor are they producing cars that are reliant on the government rebate to sell them at a competitive rate. ...

On the rebate, I believe they did depend on the rebate at the start, to help balance the price with ICE. Interesting that as soon as that ran out they dropped the price to compensate, which means to me the prices were inflated to begin with and they were taking the extra profit to grow the business.

Nothing wrong with that, I'd have done the same thing. We could debate the whole rebate thing to begin with (not a fan personally) but that borders into politics.

So we are clear, I think Tesla has done a great thing here, and I agree they are here for the long term. I don't care for their car (outside the drivetrain) design, and some of their other corporate level decisions. Musk, I can take or leave, although i tend to like "anti-establishment" type success stories.

[Lantanafrs2]

Pioneers usually have arrows sticking out of them.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

On the rebate, I believe they did depend on the rebate at the start, to help balance the price with ICE. Interesting that as soon as that ran out they dropped the price to compensate, which means to me the prices were inflated to begin with and they were taking the extra profit to grow the business.

Nothing wrong with that, I'd have done the same thing. We could debate the whole rebate thing to begin with (not a fan personally) but that borders into politics.

So we are clear, I think Tesla has done a great thing here, and I agree they are here for the long term. I don't care for their car (outside the drivetrain) design, and some of their other corporate level decisions. Musk, I can take or leave, although i tend to like "anti-establishment" type success stories.

The rebate definitely helped with revenue, and it decreased the entry price for those initial buyers who didn't know what they were getting themselves into, but it wasn't inflated; it was a reflection of the cost-to-build at that time. The gigafactory has reduced the cost to produce their batteries/cars, so it is less necessary, and buyers are much wiser of the cost savings (fuel and powertrain maintenance) to owning an electric car, so they are willing to pay a little more up front than competitors.

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/artic...ak-1105474.php

(Admittedly, unintended) rebates for ICE vehicles have existed too.

[WolfpackS2k]

I don't hate Tesla, just electric cars in general.

LOL

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I don't hate Tesla, just electric cars in general.

LOL

I don't "hate" them. I know absolutely nothing about them so just don't care.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I don't hate Tesla, just electric cars in general.

LOL

Don't lie! You are a Telsa hateboy just as much as I am a Tesla fanboy.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0

(Admittedly, unintended) rebates for ICE vehicles have existed too.

About the only one in the US I'm aware of was the "cash for clunkers" deal, of which I was not a fan either.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I don't "hate" them. I know absolutely nothing about them so just don't care.

For reference, I think James May got it right in his video above. It's a car. It's probably the future of cars whether its straight electric, a fuel cell or a mixture of the two. No different to me then gas vs diesel. That's really about all you need to know.

My only issue is road trip recharging times. They've about solved availability although there is still more planning and routing required than I find tolerable.

If they manage to come up with a version that has a 300+ range and a 15 minute to full fast charge, I'd buy one. It's still tempting since I own ICE cars and recharging for me is free at home through my EMC or at work (as mentioned in an earlier post).

I have to wonder how much a Tesla S, X or Y would cost if it was just a good car and not a rolling technology test bed. I don't need or want all the add-on garbage like electronic everything and the ability to watchNetflix when parked, or "celebration mode" that makes the car play music and dance.

[Lantanafrs2]

Doug demuros YouTube video on the Tesla model x is worth watching imo.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Well true, with the tech at the time. A lot of that difference is a function of computing power available at the time. The computer on the Apollo mission weighed over 70lbs, was 2 cubic feet in size (2ft x 1ft x 0.5ft) and had far less computing power than a throw away calculator these days.

I'm not sure how much processor power it takes to land one of the rockets ass first on a moving/wabbling barge, but it is most likely not insignificant.

Stability computations are the relatively easy part, just an inverted pendulum with 6DOF. Segway and the like has been doing it for years (with a few less DOF though). Navigation is harder, since you only have one shot to get it right and a limited amount of time to do it. The rocket engine is the actual hard part. Controlling the amount of power they put out (these are boosters remember) precisely and quickly enough to react to those calculations is like using a construction excavator to assemble a house of cards.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

For reference, I think James May got it right in his video above. It's a car. It's probably the future of cars whether its straight electric, a fuel cell or a mixture of the two. No different to me then gas vs diesel. That's really about all you need to know.

My only issue is road trip recharging times. They've about solved availability although there is still more planning and routing required than I find tolerable.

If they manage to come up with a version that has a 300+ range and a 15 minute to full fast charge, I'd buy one. It's still tempting since I own ICE cars and recharging for me is free at home through my EMC or at work (as mentioned in an earlier post).

I have to wonder how much a Tesla S, X or Y would cost if it was just a good car and not a rolling technology test bed. I don't need or want all the add-on garbage like electronic everything and the ability to what Netflix when parked, or "celebration mode" that makes the car play music and dance.

It would cost the same.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I don't hate Tesla, just electric cars in general.

The engineer in me wants to love EVs, the driver in me wants to hate them.



But really if I hate anything it would be anti-Tesla and Tesla fanboys. Hahaha. I have a co-worker who is in my department (software dev team) and he will jump out of his seat and run across the room the second he hears the word Tesla. Sometimes I twist details on news stories or repeat stories I know have false Tesla info just to see his reaction. It's too much fun I can't help myself. Hahaha "Hey Roy did you see how bad the Taycan beat the P100D in the 1/4mi?". That one got him really worked up. Hahaha