LED Conversion

[Pinkidoo]

I think "cool white" leds is a very good idea. Go for it man!

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

You shouldn't need a separate power supply, resistors can be added to lower the voltage down to the the forward voltage of the LED which is usually about 1.5V. I usually get LEDs from Vled since they wire the resistors and add heat sinks as needed in a nice plug and play package. When I wired an LED in my dimmer switch all I needed was to solder in the proper resistor in series with the LED. Heat sinks will likely be needed for groups of higher power LEDs

Definitely good info. As long as you're not running too much voltage through LED's and overheating them they should outlast the car you install them in.

[old greg]

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

You shouldn't need a separate power supply...

Me and Slide had a bit of a semi-OT discussion going, we were talking about very high power leds. Specifically, Slide linked a product with 27 watts of Cree XM-L's on a ~1.75 square inch backing plate, and then mentioned putting them inside an oem fog light housing. That's where my warning about heat came from. And with the variable air flow/temp that the heatsink would receive, a resistor just wouldn't cut it in that kind of application. You'd need a PWM power supply with closed-loop temperature monitoring in order to prevent damage on hot summer nights or from being at a stop light with your driving lights on.

Originally Posted by Slide

Not sure about the power thought :S what can be used?

If you're serious about going down the DIY path, start reading over on CandlePowerForums.

[Slide]

Thanks old greg will do!!

[cc700]

Originally Posted by Pinkidoo

I think "cool white" leds is a very good idea.

Why?

in fact, to every person that likes led i'd ask the same thing:


WHY?

halogen lamps are a subset of incandescent. most if not all interior lamps are not halogen, they are incandescent and low power.

if you think blue light looks nice, that's fine... but you should realize that there are only a handful of reasons why LEDs are 'better' and none of those apply to a car that was designed for incandescents in the first ten years of use.

1. longevity
led's last a long time when they are high quality and shielded from the elements properly. when they're not, they do fail and generally the super cheap ones are cheap for a reason- high quality costs more.

2. power usage
led's are very efficient, and don't have as much thermal output so more of the input gets converted to light. however, the power usage has to be specifically designed into the eletrical system. if you just place an LED into a system that is used to pulling the type of power a small, efficient incandescent bulb pulls, it will likely not use any less power, especially with a resistor, the resistor will eat up the rest of the power. that's its job.

3. looks/aethetic
leds have a different wavelength and spectrum and generally a different quality of light to them. they are generally lower in spectrum coverage as most of these 'cool white' leds are just blue leds with some nasty chemical filters over them to make them appear whiter. i say nasty because the ways they make these are more noxious and toxic even than incandescents, which require tons of mining and toxic manufacturing themselves. a lot of people don't like the yellowish white of an incandescent because it gives a calmer, more 'fire-like' dim feeling, even if it's not dimmer.

the thing is... the car is designed for a particular type of bulb. putting in LEDs to an incandescent system can work quite well but it can also be a HUGE problem with spotty/uneven gauges and intense light that is generally counter-productive to night vision and being able to see well outside of the car.


longevity: incandescent lights are such low power, they're going to last ten years or more. they will be cheap to replace. you can replace them one at a time. you aren't going to have to worry about their quality because they're oem. LED's can fail at any time just from getting too hot. maybe you leave your heater on and just because of how the air is blowing inside the cabin, it fries your leds. or maybe not. but this isn't a reason to do a conversion, especially less than five years off the lot.

power usage - not going to help. the alternator's draw isn't going to be affected, there are no noticeable energy savings.

looks - i think it looks dumb. at worst, you will have lights that fail without warning and you won't be able to adjust brightness the way you can with incandescents. at best, you have blue lights. gross.

So why do people like this? because you want to have a high end bmw? so stupid. I did an LED conversion on my impreza, it's the worst thing i've done and i'm very unhappy with it. gauges are all sorts of unevenly lit, and one led went out near the HVAC.



also, for LED fog lights i'd be concerned about color rendering indexes, even those CREE XM-L will have a very hard time cutting through fog and it will be harder to see by them through fog conditions.
unless, you only like fog lights for looks and you run them in clear conditions. in which case, see above. stupid.

[Levi]

Originally Posted by cc700

Why?

in fact, to every person that likes led i'd ask the same thing:


WHY?

halogen lamps are a subset of incandescent. most if not all interior lamps are not halogen, they are incandescent and low power.

if you think blue light looks nice, that's fine... but you should realize that there are only a handful of reasons why LEDs are 'better' and none of those apply to a car that was designed for incandescents in the first ten years of use.

1. longevity
led's last a long time when they are high quality and shielded from the elements properly. when they're not, they do fail and generally the super cheap ones are cheap for a reason- high quality costs more.

2. power usage
led's are very efficient, and don't have as much thermal output so more of the input gets converted to light. however, the power usage has to be specifically designed into the eletrical system. if you just place an LED into a system that is used to pulling the type of power a small, efficient incandescent bulb pulls, it will likely not use any less power, especially with a resistor, the resistor will eat up the rest of the power. that's its job.

3. looks/aethetic
leds have a different wavelength and spectrum and generally a different quality of light to them. they are generally lower in spectrum coverage as most of these 'cool white' leds are just blue leds with some nasty chemical filters over them to make them appear whiter. i say nasty because the ways they make these are more noxious and toxic even than incandescents, which require tons of mining and toxic manufacturing themselves. a lot of people don't like the yellowish white of an incandescent because it gives a calmer, more 'fire-like' dim feeling, even if it's not dimmer.

the thing is... the car is designed for a particular type of bulb. putting in LEDs to an incandescent system can work quite well but it can also be a HUGE problem with spotty/uneven gauges and intense light that is generally counter-productive to night vision and being able to see well outside of the car.


longevity: incandescent lights are such low power, they're going to last ten years or more. they will be cheap to replace. you can replace them one at a time. you aren't going to have to worry about their quality because they're oem. LED's can fail at any time just from getting too hot. maybe you leave your heater on and just because of how the air is blowing inside the cabin, it fries your leds. or maybe not. but this isn't a reason to do a conversion, especially less than five years off the lot.

power usage - not going to help. the alternator's draw isn't going to be affected, there are no noticeable energy savings.

looks - i think it looks dumb. at worst, you will have lights that fail without warning and you won't be able to adjust brightness the way you can with incandescents. at best, you have blue lights. gross.

So why do people like this? because you want to have a high end bmw? so stupid. I did an LED conversion on my impreza, it's the worst thing i've done and i'm very unhappy with it. gauges are all sorts of unevenly lit, and one led went out near the HVAC.



also, for LED fog lights i'd be concerned about color rendering indexes, even those CREE XM-L will have a very hard time cutting through fog and it will be harder to see by them through fog conditions.
unless, you only like fog lights for looks and you run them in clear conditions. in which case, see above. stupid.

WTF! I have no problem with my LED conversion. FYI Lexus also have LED bulbs.

[cc700]

yeah and they work well because they're DESIGNED that way. leds emit light totally different from incandescents. it's not LED i'm hating on, it's conversions.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by cc700

yeah and they work well because they're DESIGNED that way. leds emit light totally different from incandescents. it's not LED i'm hating on, it's conversions.

So you had someone do a bad conversion on your Impreza and now all conversions are bad? Maybe you should have found someone who can DESIGN the conversion correctly and you wouldn't be so bummed about it. Sounds like you just didn't do your homework.

[cc700]

i did it myself. if i had simply done a subpar job and others were able to make it evenly lit, i would feel differently. every one i've seen is worse than OEM... and paying someone else to do it is ridiculous, how much money do you want to waste on having LED lighting?


but that wasn't my point. my point was why do it besides 'it looks cool'?

[00NissanNinja]

@old greg ah, I get ya

Haven't had a problem with my LEDs in three years(and they are just about everywhere), I prefer a pure white color to a blue tint though (blue LEDs can be a bit intense sometimes).

[Slide]

Originally Posted by cc700

Why?

in fact, to every person that likes led i'd ask the same thing:


WHY?

halogen lamps are a subset of incandescent. most if not all interior lamps are not halogen, they are incandescent and low power.

if you think blue light looks nice, that's fine... but you should realize that there are only a handful of reasons why LEDs are 'better' and none of those apply to a car that was designed for incandescents in the first ten years of use.

1. longevity
led's last a long time when they are high quality and shielded from the elements properly. when they're not, they do fail and generally the super cheap ones are cheap for a reason- high quality costs more.

2. power usage
led's are very efficient, and don't have as much thermal output so more of the input gets converted to light. however, the power usage has to be specifically designed into the eletrical system. if you just place an LED into a system that is used to pulling the type of power a small, efficient incandescent bulb pulls, it will likely not use any less power, especially with a resistor, the resistor will eat up the rest of the power. that's its job.

3. looks/aethetic
leds have a different wavelength and spectrum and generally a different quality of light to them. they are generally lower in spectrum coverage as most of these 'cool white' leds are just blue leds with some nasty chemical filters over them to make them appear whiter. i say nasty because the ways they make these are more noxious and toxic even than incandescents, which require tons of mining and toxic manufacturing themselves. a lot of people don't like the yellowish white of an incandescent because it gives a calmer, more 'fire-like' dim feeling, even if it's not dimmer.

the thing is... the car is designed for a particular type of bulb. putting in LEDs to an incandescent system can work quite well but it can also be a HUGE problem with spotty/uneven gauges and intense light that is generally counter-productive to night vision and being able to see well outside of the car.


longevity: incandescent lights are such low power, they're going to last ten years or more. they will be cheap to replace. you can replace them one at a time. you aren't going to have to worry about their quality because they're oem. LED's can fail at any time just from getting too hot. maybe you leave your heater on and just because of how the air is blowing inside the cabin, it fries your leds. or maybe not. but this isn't a reason to do a conversion, especially less than five years off the lot.

power usage - not going to help. the alternator's draw isn't going to be affected, there are no noticeable energy savings.

looks - i think it looks dumb. at worst, you will have lights that fail without warning and you won't be able to adjust brightness the way you can with incandescents. at best, you have blue lights. gross.

So why do people like this? because you want to have a high end bmw? so stupid. I did an LED conversion on my impreza, it's the worst thing i've done and i'm very unhappy with it. gauges are all sorts of unevenly lit, and one led went out near the HVAC.



also, for LED fog lights i'd be concerned about color rendering indexes, even those CREE XM-L will have a very hard time cutting through fog and it will be harder to see by them through fog conditions.
unless, you only like fog lights for looks and you run them in clear conditions. in which case, see above. stupid.

Shut the fuck up...

[[M]]

Originally Posted by cc700

Why?

in fact, to every person that likes led i'd ask the same thing:


WHY?

halogen lamps are a subset of incandescent. most if not all interior lamps are not halogen, they are incandescent and low power.

if you think blue light looks nice, that's fine... but you should realize that there are only a handful of reasons why LEDs are 'better' and none of those apply to a car that was designed for incandescents in the first ten years of use.

1. longevity
led's last a long time when they are high quality and shielded from the elements properly. when they're not, they do fail and generally the super cheap ones are cheap for a reason- high quality costs more.

2. power usage
led's are very efficient, and don't have as much thermal output so more of the input gets converted to light. however, the power usage has to be specifically designed into the eletrical system. if you just place an LED into a system that is used to pulling the type of power a small, efficient incandescent bulb pulls, it will likely not use any less power, especially with a resistor, the resistor will eat up the rest of the power. that's its job.

3. looks/aethetic
leds have a different wavelength and spectrum and generally a different quality of light to them. they are generally lower in spectrum coverage as most of these 'cool white' leds are just blue leds with some nasty chemical filters over them to make them appear whiter. i say nasty because the ways they make these are more noxious and toxic even than incandescents, which require tons of mining and toxic manufacturing themselves. a lot of people don't like the yellowish white of an incandescent because it gives a calmer, more 'fire-like' dim feeling, even if it's not dimmer.

the thing is... the car is designed for a particular type of bulb. putting in LEDs to an incandescent system can work quite well but it can also be a HUGE problem with spotty/uneven gauges and intense light that is generally counter-productive to night vision and being able to see well outside of the car.


longevity: incandescent lights are such low power, they're going to last ten years or more. they will be cheap to replace. you can replace them one at a time. you aren't going to have to worry about their quality because they're oem. LED's can fail at any time just from getting too hot. maybe you leave your heater on and just because of how the air is blowing inside the cabin, it fries your leds. or maybe not. but this isn't a reason to do a conversion, especially less than five years off the lot.

power usage - not going to help. the alternator's draw isn't going to be affected, there are no noticeable energy savings.

looks - i think it looks dumb. at worst, you will have lights that fail without warning and you won't be able to adjust brightness the way you can with incandescents. at best, you have blue lights. gross.

So why do people like this? because you want to have a high end bmw? so stupid. I did an LED conversion on my impreza, it's the worst thing i've done and i'm very unhappy with it. gauges are all sorts of unevenly lit, and one led went out near the HVAC.



also, for LED fog lights i'd be concerned about color rendering indexes, even those CREE XM-L will have a very hard time cutting through fog and it will be harder to see by them through fog conditions.
unless, you only like fog lights for looks and you run them in clear conditions. in which case, see above. stupid.

Sorry you had a bad experience with the Impreza, I, like yourself, did a half-ass job of doing a conversion in my first car. So I could see how you could think it was bad when you had spotty gauging and a bad one near the HVAC. But after using quality LEDs from reputable distributors, I haven't had any problems that you've discussed. Regarding you comment about shielding from the elements, most of the leds I would plan to change are either in the cabin or in some enclosure. Personally, like I mentioned before, I just like them. Even as you described it as a fire-like incandescent, I prefer something crisp and clean. Currently, the cool white I have now is not so blue as you would think. It's more white than anything, and no I think it is free of any harmful chemicals.

[Longhorn248]

Originally Posted by cc700

i did it myself. if i had simply done a subpar job and others were able to make it evenly lit, i would feel differently. every one i've seen is worse than OEM... and paying someone else to do it is ridiculous, how much money do you want to waste on having LED lighting?


but that wasn't my point. my point was why do it besides 'it looks cool'?

There are people that can make them evenly lit. Like you said you did a bad job and were too cheap to pay someone to do it. "It looks cool" and "It goes faster" are pretty much the two reasons people do any modifications to a car...

[old greg]

Originally Posted by [M]

I think it is free of any harmful chemicals.

White LEDs consist of a blue diode (usually InGaN) with a coating of synthetic garnet (Yttrium-Aluminum-Garnet) over the diodes in that absorbs some of the naturally blue light coming out of the diode and emits it at a lower energy state (longer wavelength, yellowish specifically). The combination of these wavelengths appears white to our eyes.

The coating, in and of itself, isn't toxic (and it's encased in epoxy besides). It's the massive quantity of acid and mercury that is used in the mining/extraction of Yttrium that cc700 is referring to. Mining in general is a very dirty business, mining for rare earth elements is an order of magnitude worse.

The ironic thing is, "cool white" LEDs use less Yttrium than "warm white" LEDs, and as such, are better for the environment.