The $25k daily driver challenge - multi car review inside

[Re_Invention]

Hey Everyone,

So this past Sunday I did a full test drive day of these cars:

Subaru WRX
Volkswagen GTI
Mazdaspeed 3
Ford Focus ST
Honda Civic SI
Scion FR-S

My intention; find the best double duty car; daily driver and fun enough to justify the standard transmission. $25k is the cap, used is sort of considered but we'll get back to that later. All models are 2013 unless otherwise stated. We used the same route for every car but the FR-S. The route was in an industrial zoned area with no traffic and includes two long straights, a roundabout, some slight curves, and a few sharp turns. There was about 8 minutes of city driving in traffic, as well. I spent about 10 minutes in the car getting settled & playing with the infotainment systems. It was a great day and I got slightly sun burnt! I was straight forward with the sales men and was paired with a younger car guy to take us out for the test drive at all but the Scion dealership. They knew from the get-go I wasn't buying that day and wanted to put in due-diligence to test everything back to back to make a decision. Please, don't jerk around the sales guys - they need to make a living and it's a d!ck move to deceive them (even if they have a stigma about them) when they could be working on a sale. I did have to wait sometimes a little while until an appropriate salesman was free. Being honest, upfront, and confident helps - if anyone wanted to recreate this.

To start - the WRX.
I was not expecting it to be as refined as it was! From seeing so many modified ones on the street, I had no idea the stock car was so... normal. The exhaust note sounds fantastic & the exterior is great. The interior, however, yeesh. It looks incredibly dated (what a boring console from 2006!) and the seats are terrible (compared to the others). It was definitely the fastest car in the group, we hit speeds ~15-20 mph higher than the others down the long straights. The brakes are good. Now, the power delivery is so peaky, it made holding the round-about a little tough. And this made the handling some what iffy. It's an on/off switch when you're around 4.5k rpms and are trying to hold the circular line while modulating the throttle to see where the grip limit is. Additionally, the suspension felt soft and the body rolled significantly. It drove perfectly well in traffic, and with the STI short shifter - it did have among the longest throws in the group but it was not a negative experience. At the end of the test drive - you know it's a fast cheap car. I'm sure this is what the Cobalt SS felt like; it doesn't try to 'sportify' anything or give you any illusion that you are in a sporty car. I can see why every single one I see is modded on the street.

Pros-
* Awesome speed, best bang for the buck
* Great exterior styling
* Most spacious

Cons-
* So-so feedback and handling
* Peaky power delivery
* Needs a 6th gear
* Dated dash, sparse interior


The VW GTI
I was going in prejudiced into the GTI, I thought it'd be the most desirable interiors to be in. I was surprised - it wasn't as posh as I had remembered. The seats are great, the steering wheel is nice and the doors have that satisfying 'thunk' when you close them. I'm indifferent to the exterior styling. I like how peppy the car feels at 2000 rpms, it spools so fast and gives you a little nudge and you scoot along. By 5,8k rpms it gives up the ghost and just noises its way to redline. Very comfortable to ride in, the suspension was a little harsh (although this was coming shortly after the WRX), the steering feedback was very nice with good turn in. It did understeer and feeding it throttle on the roundabout wasn't increasing speeds or that fun. Was great in traffic, get-up-and-go when you need it, solid shifter, good visibility. At the end of the test drive - I was still convinced the GTI is it's own car and not a golf. Maybe it it, maybe it isn't (and that speaks volumes to how good the golf is!) but I wasn't as charmed with the fit and finish as I thought I would be, the competitors quality are taking that charm away slowly but surely.

Pros-
* Solid car feeling
* Good seats
* Power right away

Cons-
* Understeer
* Engine runs out of breathe halfway through
* Looks boring


The Mazdaspeed 3 (2011 CPO)
This was a car I'd really been looking forward to. I've owned a miata before and I like how Mazda did things, the new Mazda6 looks promising and this MS3 has gotten good reviews. Being it's at the end of it's run, I figured it'd have everything worked out and would be the best MS3 it could be. Well, the Mazda dealership didn't have any 2013's in stock and said they wouldn't be getting any either... wat? So I made due and tried out a CPO 2011 model. The interior is noticeably plastic-y. In a similar way the Genesis Coupe feels. The seats do a good job holding you, the shifter is ok, the clutch pedal felt good but the steering wheel simply sucks. It's thin and hard. It isn't comfortable to grip and it communicates more vibrations than need be - it doesn't filter as well as the others. The throttle is very sensitive; thankfully the boost comes on earlier than the WRX but when it does, it comes on quick and builds rapidly. I laughed when I did the first gear launch on the straight - you really gotta hold onto the wheel to make sure the torque steer doesn't take the car off line. It handled fine on the roundabout, better than the GTI and more composed than the WRX but eventually pushed (pulled?) out with progressive understeer. The dashboard goes on very long towards the bottom of the windshield and gives you an impression of driving something bigger than you are. At the end of the test drive - I get it but I don't want it. I still haven't processed exactly what I don't like about the MS3 but it's missing an X factor.

Pros-
* Lots of power and good delivery
* Neutral handling to the limit

Cons-
* Cheap feeling interior
* Awkward exterior styling


The Ford Focus ST
Now this was a surprise. It had a lot of the package groups including the Recaro seats and MyFord system. I actually walked past the car looking for it on the dealer lot! It's very sedate styling, we had the MS3 and the ST next to each other on the lot and wow, definitely understated. I really like playing around with the tech; some folks may find it distracting but hey, my generation is the adhd one, we like our video games and info overload. Interior is nice, nice big screen, some gauges, easy to read, well laid out, the shifter is slightly off-center plane and is angled towards the passenger. It's very nice actually, your hand falls right onto place with great feeling. Power delivery is great, similar to the MS3 but without the sensitive throttle. Sounded the best out of the group, really nice baritone sound from the engine/sound tubes. Wow, what a fun car in the corners. The roundabout was a riot, the car just grips and inspires you to give more throttle, more throttle, more throttle! It rotates around so neutrally. I kept thinking - this thing would ROCK at an autocross. It also drove well in traffic. However, I HIGHLY recommend you try out the Recaro's before thinking about them; I do not fit in them. They have these wings towards the top that push my shoulder blades forward and crunch my collarbone inwards. It's a terribly painful seat and was designed for someone under 5'10. I would definitely order without the recaro's. At the end of the test drive - you recognize it's a focus. And that's not a terrible thing because it's a nice car but similar to the MS3 or WRX, you're reminded you aren't in a special car but a 'tuned' car from the factory.

Pros-
* Best handling
* Great power delivery
* Cool interior design and tech

Cons-
* Sedate exterior styling
* Recaro's from hell


Honda Civic SI
The re-designed coupe with nav. The test drive ended after a mile; I simply don't fit in the car. I'm 6'2 with a 33 inseam. My head was about an inch and a half into the sunroof. Sad because I loved the interior. People may knock it but I don't care what others think, it's awesome! The 3d like star trek lines, the nav, the system read out, the big red tach. As well, the car felt better stitched together than any others in the group. If these were racing horses, I'd bet the SI would be competing the longest before being put down. It looks and feels a head above the competitors in terms of craftsmanship. But, doesn't matter, I don't fit and so I drove it back without seeing what it can do.

Pros-
* Best interior
* Fantastic shifter

Cons-
* Awkward exterior styling
* Most cramped interior


Before I get to the FR-S, to make a few quick comments about the chosen group and why some were excluded, specifically the Genesis Coupe 2.0T R Spec and the Mini Cooper S. I have two good friends with the Genesis Coupe R spec and have a good amount of seat time in it, however, we did try to test drive one but none of the Hyundai dealerships had an R spec in stock. And the Mini Cooper S - I dated a girl with one and seeing her go through so many mechanical and electrical failures in addition to reading about it on the forums all day long - I won't consider it.


The Scion FR-S
This was my third test drive of the car. Admittedly, the previous one left a sour taste in my mouth as it felt painstakingly slow. I've scoured this forum to see if there was any possible reason the car could have felt that slow, I didn't want to believe the car was THAT bad. Well, I didn't find an excuse so far (it was a hot day, maybe the oil temps were very high from previous test drives?) but this time was different, very different. The car felt... adequate! (haha) I won't say too much about the car since most readers here own it but I was pleasantly surprised with the little oompf it had as I remembered it had nothing at all on the previous test drive. The brakes are terrible, the shifter is the best, the steering feedback is the best, the handling is the best, the visibility is alright. At the end of the test drive - this is the only car that convinces me I'm in something sporty, not a modified eco car. The seating position is excellent.

Pros-
* Just about everything

Cons-
* Poor Scion dealership attitude
* Least practical
* Terrible brakes
* Lethargic engine


And that's it. For $25k, the FR-S does the best job at giving the illusion of a sports car and ties the Ford Focus ST for most fun to drive. The car that I drove in between the test drives to get me from dealer to dealer - 1999 Honda S2000 with ~60k miles on the clock. That is a sports car. It's loud, it's mechanical, everything is on point - it has drama to it. It's also a pain in the ass to live with everyday and so the FR-S makes perfect sense.

And then the question of new $25k or used $25k comes up. For the same money I could find a six speed Acura TL type S with tech package, I could get into a slightly used freeway cruiser TSX/IS/3 series or I could do something really stupid like a C5 Corvette ZO6 or Lotus Elise. The FR-S is good value, it's a fun package that hides its cheap car roots the best.


So, now comes the tough choice - FR-S or BRZ?

[Lonewolf]

Now that sounds like a fun day...

I've been hearing a lot of bad stories about Crown Scion in Ontario (and you mention the bad Scion dealership attitude), is that where you test drove the FRS?

[Splat]

nice review. I didn't like the looks of GTI and turbo. The mazda felt cheezy. The lotus, would not fit my racquetball bag or anything else, so why waste a ton of time looking for a used in the same price range that may need more work. Mini cooper - I love the looks, for a girl. I tried to get BRZ first, nobody had one. Now you will have better luck with that I see them at my local dealership. So, it comes down to what interior do you want, more frills=BRZ or which front end you like better ? that is all.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Now that sounds like a fun day...

I've been hearing a lot of bad stories about Crown Scion in Ontario (and you mention the bad Scion dealership attitude), is that where you test drove the FRS?

I've had a bad experience there as well but this attitude was rampant at 3 other Scion dealerships in the LA/OC area. But I get it, folks hooning around on test drives - putting miles on a car that gets harder to sell. So I won't list names, it's a business and it's their right to refuse me access. If I'm buying and get treated like that, however, I'll be sure to warn others about their customer service.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

I've had a bad experience there as well but this attitude was rampant at 3 other Scion dealerships in the LA/OC area. But I get it, folks hooning around on test drives - putting miles on a car that gets harder to sell. So I won't list names, it's a business and it's their right to refuse me access. If I'm buying and get treated like that, however, I'll be sure to warn others about their customer service.

I can understand that salespeople get upset with losers who come in only to beat on cars and have no real intention of buying, but the bad attitude is going to lose the sales to the legit buyers as well.

[mit_peid]

Yup, sounds like a good day for you. Your review is consistent with my research as well with cars in the similar price range, but I didn't get a chance to test drive all the cars. It was between the WRX and FRS/BRZ for me, but I have to admit the Focus ST was a close third. When it came down to it, the FRS felt the best. If only it came with the HP of the WRX stock, it would start to be a [small] giant killer. And I agree, most of us FRS/BRZ owners won't even try to make the argument it is better than the S2000, but just that the twins are easier to live with. I would love to have that extra 40HP and the Honda VTEC noise getting up to redline. Regardless, I like the styling of the twins better and I'm not much a convertible guy. So I totally agree the FRS is the best choice although it won't wow you with its amount of power.

Between FRS and BRZ, I got the FRS but there are some days I like the BRZ styling better. I still like the FRS's agressive front end and white tachometer better. But I like the BRZ's HID lighting and side decal better. Still not sure if I would have sprung for the Limited if it were available and not marked up when I bought my FRS (leather seats are nice but I've heard of too many issues with push-button start in general). At the end of the day, the only performance difference between the two are the spring rates with the FRS favoring oversteer a little more than the BRZ. Most/Many owners will be getting new aftermarket springs anyway so it really doesn't make a difference. I would have preferred a Subaru badge on my car instead of a Scion badge but that starts to be a little superficial. Then again, we all want a good-looking fun-driving sports, so we're all already superficial like that.

[Purdue FR-S]

I test drove the ST and the Si before making my decision as well.

Must say I agree with what you said about the Si in terms of craftsmanship. You can tell just by test driving it for a couple miles (sad that you didn't get to drive it for very long ) ... that Honda's been doing this for a long time! lol

Also the ST's tech was such a turn-off to me. I understand this is a personal choice. Funny that there is such variety in people even from the same generation!

[Demandred7]

I am sure you will have the same diligence at comparing the twins. Good read. Thanks for posting.

[Tromatic]

Huh? Was it broken?

* Terrible brakes
* Lethargic engine

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by Tromatic

Huh? Was it broken?

* Terrible brakes
* Lethargic engine

No, in fact this car drove remarkably better than the last FR-S I test drove. The engine still takes its time to rev and doesn't feel like 200 hp. The brakes are dismal. Long pedal travel with little feel, I don't care what the actual stopping distance is, Toyobaru forgot to dial it in during testing. Lines, fluid, cylinder brace and pads are the first things to get swapped/installed. But neither of those issues are new, they've been beaten to a pulp on this forum and else where. I just wrote out my test drive observations - I didn't go into it thinking 'well this can be taken care of aftermarket'. That's not a fair comparison and the manufacture should have gotten it right to begin with.

[Franzo]

Nice reviews. I can't speak for most of the cars from my personal experiences but I'm surprised at your disappointment with the fr-s brakes and gti's interior. I have read in most reviews very positive remarks about the fr-s braking power, especially considering its low weight. I love my GTI's interior, I find it very similar in fit and finish to the 535i my boss drives. Lots of soft to the touch materials and very good standard equiptment. As for it running out of puff around 5,500rpms that's pretty accurate. When the torque curve starts to drop you might as well just shift into the next gear. A tune helps the top end a lot but I'm sure that's the case for most of the turbocharged cars you tested. If its down to the twins for you I would say the brz for the superior interior, standard equipment, and that lovely shade of blue. It would be just above your $25,000 budget, IMO if you can afford the extra few thousand I would go for it. Either way I'm sure either of the twins will be a good car for you.

[Tromatic]

Originally Posted by Re_Invention

The brakes are dismal. Long pedal travel with little feel, I don't care what the actual stopping distance is, Toyobaru forgot to dial it in during testing.

Odd, mine has great brakes.

[YW-Slayer]

Yeah, my brakes are great too. I'm not sure whether something was wrong with your examples.

Also, I am a dyed-in-the-wool Subie fan (see left) but I have to say that if I were looking for a new hatch, the ST would be at the top of my list.

[elbles]

Count me as another who thinks the brakes on the twins are just fine. I know C&D and R&T had some issues with them on the track, but on the street, they're just fine.

Conversely, I had a MK6 GTI before the BRZ, and that took the cake for the worst brakes I've had on a car (even worse than my S13 240SX). They bit OK, but the pedal feel was absolutely horrible and spongy. That was easily the car's weakest spot from the factory, IMHO.