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Old 07-16-2014, 03:07 PM   #29
Shiv@Openflash
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Quote:
Originally Posted by transition View Post
As requested:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fdwuxreno7...unFile_012.drf

(all dyno runs were done in 5th gear)
Thanks man. But that's just the one final Ecutek run. I was hoping for all the runs in the tuning session.

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Originally Posted by jamesm View Post
Speed Density, custom maps for things like boost control, real flex fuel, AFR failsafes, overboost fuel cuts, boost by gear, better traction control. The list is endless, but pretty much boils down to 'custom maps'.

The real big thing though is speed density, which gets you around the MAF limitation, and the ability to use custom maps to overcome the port injection limitations at high power levels (typically on e85).

Also, just in my personal opinion i wouldn't be comfortable tuning a turbo car without an overboost fuel cut. Mine has already saved my motor a couple times, and i know a couple guys who didn't have it and it cost them a new engine. Not worth not having, imho.

Now with a supercharger the math is entirely different. The vortech kit works great. The JRSC kit, not so much (the MAF is maxed out of the box). The kraftwerks kit seems like it would be fine, but the bigger blower also maxes the MAF in the default configuration, necessitating SD.
The OFT OTS map for the SBD turbo does have overboost protection. Just ask @Neal@EQtuning
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:09 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash View Post
Thanks man. But that's just the one final Ecutek run. I was hoping for all the runs in the tuning session.



The OFT OTS map for the SBD turbo does have overboost protection. Just ask @Neal@EQtuning
I was unaware. That's great news! Is it a custom routine of some sort? Available to the rest of us?
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:11 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash View Post
Thanks man. But that's just the one final Ecutek run. I was hoping for all the runs in the tuning session.



The OFT OTS map for the SBD turbo does have overboost protection. Just ask @Neal@EQtuning
Sorry about that - here's the whole deal:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ikfccz30p...I8LO-jzwQrn8qa
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:42 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash View Post
Thanks man. But that's just the one final Ecutek run. I was hoping for all the runs in the tuning session.



The OFT OTS map for the SBD turbo does have overboost protection. Just ask @Neal@EQtuning
Haha, saved my damn motor too!
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:55 PM   #33
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Haha, saved my damn motor too!
how was overboost cut feature achieved ?
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:00 PM   #34
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how was overboost cut feature achieved ?
Shiv would be the one to ask for specifics obviously, but from my understanding, it's a load based ignition cut using the maf. I actually have a log of it if you want to see.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Neal@EQtuning View Post
Shiv would be the one to ask for specifics obviously, but from my understanding, it's a load based ignition cut using the maf. I actually have a log of it if you want to see.
yes be interesting to see

thought it would have needed a custom routine/patch in rom, to enable ignition cut
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by transition View Post
Sorry about that - here's the whole deal:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ikfccz30p...I8LO-jzwQrn8qa
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I do have a few questions and concerns about your comparison though.

1) According to the run files, it looks like you guys did 2 back-to-back runs on the OFT tune (within the same minute). And in the comparison, you plotted the lower powered run. Is there a reason for this?

2) According to the run files, the Ecutek tune you plotted was the highest hp run of all the other Ecutek tunes. And it looks like it was done a good 20 minutes from from any of the other runs. So presumably, the engine was cooler and the air quality in the dyno cell better.

Also, I'm not sure why the run numbers are inverted. Run 1 was the last one done according to the dynojet time stamps. And run 12 was the first.

Lastly, when baseline in the OFT, you did two back to back 5th gear runs. But when tuning the Ecutek, you alternated between 4th and 5th gear runs. I'm guessing to keep the engine cooler than if doing back to back 5th gear runs.

These are just some observations based upon the actual dynorun run data you were nice enough to post. Sometimes more info is better than less info.

Regards,
Shiv
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
how was overboost cut feature achieved ?
By common sense

Just logged load (g/rev) during a normal pull. And incorporated an ignition timing cut at load levels greater than that. Makes it pretty obvious when you have a wg failure. Exhaust note goes "POP". Engine doesn't.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:25 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash View Post
By common sense

Just logged load (g/rev) during a normal pull. And incorporated an ignition timing cut at load levels greater than that. Makes it pretty obvious when you have a wg failure. Exhaust note goes "POP". Engine doesn't.
That's a hack at best, and not a real overboost fuel cut. What happens when the customer stays wide open into it? Couldn't that cause EGTs to skyrocket? Granted we like to think people would be smart enough to get off of it... but in reality they aren't always.

I've tried this same solution in the past on BRZEdit and ditched the idea on the basis that using calculated load to infer boost was as bad idea in general. That what the map sensor is for .
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:29 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiv@Openflash View Post
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I do have a few questions though.

1) According to the run files, it looks like you guys did 2 back-to-back runs on the OFT tune (within the same minute). And in the comparison, you plotted the lower powered run. Is there a reason for this?

2) According to the run files, the Ecutek tune you plotted was the highest hp run of all the other Ecutek tunes. And it looks like it was done a good 20 minutes from from any of the other runs. So presumably, the engine was cooler and the air quality in the dyno cell better.

Also, I'm not sure why the run numbers are inverted. Run 1 was the last one done according to the dynojet time stamps. And run 12 was the first.

Lastly, when baseline in the OFT, you did two back to back 5th gear runs. But when tuning the Ecutek, you alternated between 4th and 5th gear runs. I'm guessing to keep the engine cooler than if doing back to back 5th gear runs.

These are just some observations based upon the actual dynorun run data you were nice enough to post. Sometimes more info is better than less info.

Regards,
Shiv
1) I believe they just went ahead and selected the first run with the OFT without comparing both pulls.

2) I believe the data you need to validate this is in the files? The first pull was done on OFT and didn't come from an overly 'hot' car. My car was sitting in the parking lot all day, it was brought up to temp then ran.

Obviously i would have never posted the files if there was any intent to manipulate. We're open about the results and the work speaks for itself. Interpret the results as you may. Here's another one we did that got similar results a few months back.



The reason ECUTeK was done on my car was the intent to go forced induction. Perhaps i should have just titled the post "Off the shelf tune vs pro tune". The intent here is not in any way to say that OFT's product is somehow inferior. You're producing a great product with very distinct differences than something like the ECUTeK. I'm sure we could have achieved very similar results with a pro tune and the OFT which i'd highly recommend for an N/A car.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:30 PM   #40
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And the Shiv battle begins...
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by jamesm View Post
That's a hack at best, and not a real overboost fuel cut. What happens when the customer stays wide open into it? Couldn't that cause EGTs to skyrocket? Granted we like to think people would be smart enough to get off of it... but in reality they aren't always.

I've tried this same solution in the past on BRZEdit and ditched the idea on the basis that using calculated load to infer boost was as bad idea in general. That what the map sensor is for .
Customer can't stay wide open in it because the engine falls flat and misfires. Neal@EQ can comment on that.

To the engine, all it sees is load (airflow/rev). It doesn't actually see about MAP. MAP is an load estimate. It's just an indication of the air pressure in the manifold. VVT (among other things) effect the correlation between MAP and actual engine load. So to me, engine load cuts (as opposed to MAP cuts) is the better approach.

As always, your mileage may vary.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:42 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by transition View Post
1) I believe they just went ahead and selected the first run with the OFT without comparing both pulls.

2) I believe the data you need to validate this is in the files? The first pull was done on OFT and didn't come from an overly 'hot' car. My car was sitting in the parking lot all day, it was brought up to temp then ran.

Obviously i would have never posted the files if there was any intent to manipulate. We're open about the results and the work speaks for itself. Interpret the results as you may. Here's another one we did that got similar results a few months back.



The reason ECUTeK was done on my car was the intent to go forced induction. Perhaps i should have just titled the post "Off the shelf tune vs pro tune". The intent here is not in any way to say that OFT's product is somehow inferior. You're producing a great product with very distinct differences than something like the ECUTeK. I'm sure we could have achieved very similar results with a pro tune and the OFT which i'd highly recommend for an N/A car.
That's fine. I'm just pointing out that you chart compares the lower of 2 pulls on the OFT tune to the highest of 10 pulls on the Ecutek. By no means am I saying this was intentional. But I think it's important info to mention because a somewhat different picture is presented when comparing apples to apples. If you give me permission (this is your thread afterall) I can post up another dyno comparison that holds more testing variables constant.
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