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View Poll Results: Which jab have you had? | |||
Pfizer | 53 | 51.96% | |
Moderna | 27 | 26.47% | |
Johnson & Johnson | 6 | 5.88% | |
AstraZeneca | 4 | 3.92% | |
Novavax | 0 | 0% | |
Sputnik | 1 | 0.98% | |
Convidecia | 0 | 0% | |
Homebrew with a big dose of something special | 11 | 10.78% | |
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll |
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03-29-2021, 05:47 PM | #1107 | |
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03-29-2021, 05:49 PM | #1108 | ||
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It sounds like your "weed" is regarding 'mRNA potentially entering the nucleus'? Yes, some mRNA can and will enter the nucleus, but it doesn't do anything there are it would get digested by the RNAse into nucleobases. If mRNA is used and served its translation purpose (mRNA → proteins), RNAse comes to cleave/cut up the mRNA into the nucleobases again. These nucleobases are recycled for DNA/RNA, energy, or other cellular functions. Yes the "Lego" pieces of mRNA used in the vaccine will be broken up and recycled by your cells (as does every endogenous/exogenous mRNA). The pieces can be moved throughout the cell (nucleus included) be it via entropy/protein-guided, and will be used for something else. The mRNA entering the nucleus doesn't do anything to our DNA because humans lack reverse transcriptase enzyme (which would provide the function of transcribing RNA sequence into DNA). Even if humans DID have this function, human DNA has proteins that double checks the DNA sequence matches the other strand. If it doesn't, the strand gets chopped up and DNA polymerase comes back in to properly copy the father strand. (Not even going into nitty-gritty details that DNA sequence is not exact mirror to mRNA sequence ~) And lets say it gets past this check point, then the immune system will detect foreign proteins synthesized by the foreign DNA sequence. This will cause the immune response to attack the source of the foreign protein and eventually find the root cause cell and trigger cellular death be it apoptosis or phagocytosis or what have you. (That being said, there is ongoing research into reverse transcriptase for humans as it is one of the potential reasons for aging - fun topic, why do we age?). The only "alteration" one can argue is epigenetics. Which can be both important or so insignificant that it's not even worth discussing. With regards to vaccinations, it's an insignificant impact. It's like on par with comparing "running your car with or without DRL on your car during the day" insignificance in terms of vaccinations-epigenetics. ----------------------- The easiest way to find academic information for people not in the scientific community would be to go to your library (online is fine) and search for a public access biology textbook. Textbooks are reviewed by several PhD's within the field and are regularly updated (often for $, to the bane of college students' wallets, sometimes for typos/error correction) to learn the general mechanics. If you want to dive further, pick up a biology focused biochem textbook (trust me, chemistry focused biochem isn't something you want to touch). If you try to go on NEJM/PNAS/NATURE/etc. journals, you'll find information way over your head. Heck, majority will be over my head as I am not specializing in research of that specific niche topic. I can read up on it and catch up on the topic, but you need to realize most of those articles are published with aims of contesting the current standard of knowledge and push the boundaries of what humans as a society know. So you'll be able to find outlandish hypotheses and the arguments for them. Part of being a researcher is analyzing the logic behind the published article to determine whether or not that is a sound logic and whether or not the data supports the logic. Scholarly journals are literal public forums where scientists throw their months/years of research into the scholarly public eyes and ears, hoping their work gets picked up and catches the attention of others. Most are ignored, but those work gets picked up by others to feed into the next step of researching a question that probes deeper. And this continues until a groundbreaking discovery happens which may have a chance of revealing a new method of treating diseases. To which will trigger further research, in biological, medical, and pharmaceutical forks in the research. Quote:
Once the antigen (protein) is recognized as foreign, it triggers immune response to that specific antigen. Once immune response is complete and the body has cleared itself of this foreign antigen, the immune system creates memory immune cells. These cells floats around and doesn't reactivate unless it binds to that same antigen (again, protein structure specific), meaning you have been exposed to covid. The memory cell then activates a faster and more robust immune response than a person that did not have the vaccine. This is how vaccines work. So if your immune system is on the weaker end then it is still technically possible to get covid even with the vaccine. Albeit extremely unlikely.
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Last edited by Bonburner; 03-29-2021 at 10:29 PM. Reason: reactivate* not reactive |
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03-29-2021, 06:22 PM | #1109 |
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Yes and I see now that I would have failed miserably. Thanks very much for taking the time. I'll settle for reading up on the topics you mentioned.
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03-29-2021, 06:32 PM | #1110 | |
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03-29-2021, 07:01 PM | #1111 | |
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03-29-2021, 07:05 PM | #1112 |
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Meh... Schooled by @Bonburner. Was a fool's errand.
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03-29-2021, 07:27 PM | #1113 | |
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The other takeaway is that even without reverse transcriptase, the abundance of intercellular chaos can potentially lead to DNA damage, which can lead to cancers, but like Bonburner said, the rate of damage is so small and the rate of repair is so much more robust that getting cancer might be a lottery event. As such is the case, the mortality rate for COVID for any age group so vastly exceeds the cancer rate risk that for anyone to be more concerned with the vaccine is nonsensical. If someone wanted to understand the processes by which viruses could lead to cancer then they could check out HPV and cervical cancer, as an example. I think the clearest and simplest concept for anyone to understand about this vaccine is that the COVID virus is already injecting its genetic code into our cells to produce whole viruses—copies of itself. We are instead just delivering a fraction of this genetic code to the cell so just the spike protein is made. If that mRNA could cause cancer/DNA damage then COVID has a much greater likelihood of causing cancer.
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03-29-2021, 08:28 PM | #1114 | |
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03-29-2021, 09:05 PM | #1115 | |
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In the past I worked for a large medicare and medicaid provider, my wife worked for a very large independent healthcare provider. The independent provider used to create their own cost formularies (what they paid providers) for office visits, drugs, procedures, etc. that they covered. Then they negotiated with doctors, hospitals, drug companies, etc. to get the best agreed price. Enter goverment healthcare (medicaid, medicare, etc.) who didn't initially use formularies, they would pay whatever they were charged based on an agreed fair pricing. As providers & drug companies found out, no one in the government was checking if the prices they were paying were fair, so the prices kept increasing, to the point that independent companies were forced to pay higher prices as well or avoid losing providers and access to drugs. Eventually the government caught on and created a task force to publish their own formularies of what they would pay, they worked with independent healthcare insurers to create a standard formulary, that all healthcare would use. So the independents no longer created their own, and began using the government formularies. The government said maintaining the formulary was cost prohibitive asked the providers and healthcare companies to again only charge a fair cost, not to exceed a certain percentage increase annually. And they agreed, so since then, all formularies, government of independent were subject to the same cost increases annually. So the drug companies increase the costs annually, increasing the cost of drugs created years and years ago. With newer drugs and procedures they are able to set any price they claim is "fair". Same reason a single Tylenol is $64 at the hospital instead of a bottle of $2.19 for a bottle of 325. And like magic healthcare is too expensive. The medicare/medicaid company I worked for had an active State Senator on the staff..., had her own office at the company. She helped pass the laws that benefitted the company. Including one that allowed medicare/medicaid providers to sell their member lists to other medicare/medicaid companies. Why? Because each time soemone signed up to a new company, the government paid the company a signing bonus for that person, and different companies could get that signing bonus for the SAME person as long as it had been longer than 1 year since signing with another company. The company I worked for made billions doing this. Meanwhile taxes, and medical care got more expensive. Education is the same way, you must go or you will not be successful. Indebting a new class of debtors every school year with the lure of success with a wealth iof useless majors for average students while millions of decent paying tradesman jobs go to those scurrying across the border; electricians, carpenter/framers, plumbers, steelworkers, welders, auto technicians, installers, etc. all because we raise our kids to think success is only found with a degree, and not in a trade. Just like oil, coal & auto companies are huge backers of the right, healthcare, education & technology are huge backers of the left and they are all taking care of each other...not any of us.
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03-29-2021, 09:08 PM | #1116 |
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Big thanks to Bonburner and others for taking the time to elaborate on the nuance of this discussion.
For anyone that wants some clarity on the relationship between DNA, RNA, mRNA, etc. check this video out. |
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03-29-2021, 09:35 PM | #1117 | |
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03-29-2021, 09:41 PM | #1118 |
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I can't stop laughing over the fear that has been instilled into so many over this virus. I'm still in a high risk group, still traveling around the country, to the stores, on airplanes, eating out at restaurants...have been wearing a mask around others and washing my hands, and, other than on airplanes, maintaining my distance....still caught the virus, was a "different" feel than others viruses/flu, but beat it in short order. Contact traced those who had been around me, none got it, stayed sequestered as per Dr orders, no one in my household got it. Have been offered the vaccine 3 times because of my "high risk" categorization and have decided against getting the vaccine until the trials, that you all are unknowingly participating in, are complete and it gets full FDA approval as I will not risk my rights against any potential liabilities the emergency use vaccines may cause as they will not be covered currently.
I have had multiple acquaintances that have also contracted the virus, some minor, some moderate, some major and even one that was fatal so I do not think this was a hoax, but it was certainly manipulated to cause an unnecessary amount of fear in the populous.
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03-29-2021, 10:36 PM | #1119 |
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You're welcome.
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03-29-2021, 11:18 PM | #1120 | |
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Got moderna #2 last Friday. After having COVID in Jan, and unable to work for 2 weeks, I'll never do that crap again. Sign me up for the Russian one. Besides, mRNA, salt, fat, and sugar is basically a Big Mac. |
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