Tracking with Forced Induction

[rb6freak]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

08/30/2014 Buttonwillow Raceway 13 CW Saturday

See you there.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Changing throttle/pedal relationship doesn't eliminate turbo spoolup

Then I'm using my terms wrong. I'm not the one who broached the idea originally, but the basic premise seemed sound.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by mike the snake

Were the fans running when that melting occurred?

Of course! It was also like 35-45F ambient ( I dont remember the exact temp, but it was cool), and the melting occurred after 3 laps.

Do keep in mind, however, that our fan melting problem only happens in the winter, and is isolated to this specific car, but we've melted fans multiple times.

Although I can't say 100%, I'm 99% sure if I had driven any turbo kit of this style on the same day in the same fashion, we would have melted fans on the other cars as well.

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

It's called a search feature.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

Edit (now that I'm on a desktop instead of on Tapatalk's limited platform): I apologize for the above. I finally found the chart, but it took a) knowing it definitely existed, and b) searching for the "thanked" posts of the tuner (b/c "posts by user" maxed out before the posting date of this post). So, it would have been incredibly difficult to find. It was effectively buried in the forum.

The 200 whp on E85 you're referring to was done by Shiv on a dynojet (iirc. may have been a mustang), and it was 207 rwhp. Here is the post with 200 whp on a mustang dyno on 91 octane pump gas in AZ.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1549

I would never run that much timing advance on 91 octane. May look good for the dyno but useless for sustained track sessions.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I would never run that much timing advance on 91 octane. May look good for the dyno but useless for sustained track sessions.

It's not an unsafe amount of timing, but it was pushing it. The owner of the car is a cone dodger more than a track junkie, so it wouldn't be subjected to long term high rpm conditions like on a track, and the owner is willing to eventually blow up his motor and then build a block.

But, the tuning has gotten better since this, so it's not so risky. I'm having my tuner still be reasonably conservative, and he's confident I'll score between 190-200 whp on the mustang dyno. Considering all the testing he's done in the months in between on various 86's here in AZ, he's been figuring out quite a bit and making good power on these cars on pump gas without getting unsafe.

Then again, most of us are street driving these cars, not setting them up for hard track useage.

The point is, it's very possible to get 200 whp on 91 pump gas in NA. Add FI, dial in a bit more conservative timing for safety (on the FI tune), and you're easily getting LOTS more power available safely for track if you're able to keep the heat down.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Sure. Compare the complexity of the Jackson Racing kit and the Kraftwerks kit. One adds onto the crank pulley, while the other only adds two idlers.

When you look at the kits from a failure analysis perspective, you can see why our decision was easy.

We're tired of losing engines; failure prevention is absolutely top priority.

I didn't mean to compare the JR and the KW kits. I thought you were talking about turbo and supercharger kits.

[icemang17]

the least important thing a "track car" needs is HP....most any modern car has plenty.... The most cost effective way to drop lap times is improve the driver

The LEAST cost effective way to drop lap times is to buy more hp...which unforunately is usually the 1st thing drivers do

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

That's the worst suggestion I've seen in this thread by a LARGE margin...

Why?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[car_roll]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Why?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

The area of the windshield wiper cowl is a high pressure zone. Allowing air to enter through that area allows pressure to build up behind the radiator, which in turn means the radiator won't be as efficient (the radiator works off of pressure differential between the front and back of the radiator). This is assuming that the pressure at the cowl is greater than the pressure under the hood. If the pressure under the hood is greater than the pressure at the cowl (which in most cases it isn't), then yes removing the cowl will help.

[Dipstik-sportech]

Originally Posted by car_roll

The area of the windshield wiper cowl is a high pressure zone. Allowing air to enter through that area allows pressure to build up behind the radiator, which in turn means the radiator won't be as efficient (the radiator works off of pressure differential between the front and back of the radiator). This is assuming that the pressure at the cowl is greater than the pressure under the hood. If the pressure under the hood is greater than the pressure at the cowl (which in most cases it isn't), then yes removing the cowl will help.

I was always under the impression that was a low pressure area and team VCMC took theirs out and reported massive temp drops.

The Frozen North

[Reaper]

It is a low pressure area.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[car_roll]

Originally Posted by Dipstik-sportech

I was always under the impression that was a low pressure area and team VCMC took theirs out and reported massive temp drops.

The Frozen North

Did they have a drop in Intake temps or Coolant temps? Because I can definitely see a drop in intake temps with a removed cowl. As for coolant temps...See below

Originally Posted by Reaper

It is a low pressure area.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Here's a CFD pressure plot of a miata, courtesy of Rob Robinette



Notice the small high pressure spot where the cowl should be. It may not be a frs/brz, but it should possess the same characteristic. That being said, removing the windshield wiper cowl will help reduce coolant temps IF and ONLY IF the pressure under the hood is greater than at the cowl. It should, however, help reduce intake air temps.

[SirBrass]

What would be helpful would be a cfd pressure plot of inside the engine bay of a FI'd 86 to get an idea of how much of a pressure drop there is over the radiator & where the air is flowing to.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[mike the snake]

This has some pressure charts.







Related links:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48283
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...01#post1249401


So, as most of you know I have been building and tweaking my rear diffuser model for a few months now. Some experiments with success, others with failure.

I love our automotive community and would rather help foster growth and success from within, instead of looking to outside sources for work, technology and effort. So, I contacted @plucas from Hancha Group, who is not only a part of our community but also an owner and enthusiast of our platform. Hancha builds a couple parts for us and are working on more. They are in the same boat as me, they love what they do and are working to get better.

Anyhow, the moment many people have been waiting for. Hancha uses a 3D model that they are continuing to build more and more detail into. It isn't complete. This data is not 100% fact, it is meant as a function to show where and how my diffuser functions in an environmental simulation. It provide graphical representation which I can back with real world accounts that reinforce the data.

Would I love to be able to get into a wind tunnel? Yes. Would I love to run the model in UNC's engineering computers? Yes. Can I afford any of that shit? No. So if any millionaires have complaints about the testing data, feel free to paypal me some cash, because the government doesn't even want to pay me my check right now.

Without further ado.

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