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Old 07-21-2018, 06:08 PM   #281
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
On Carfolio I got 3252 vs 3499 for the 230 vs 340, respectively. Iím sure it depends on where you look on the internet.



Itíll definitely be heavier than the 86, but the difference might sway a few buyers. Similarly, Iím sure the M2 swayed a few buyers from the M3/4, regardless of price or power, just because of the size. It seemed to hold its own even without the power on some tracks.


Got my numbers from BMW
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:32 PM   #282
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Got my numbers from BMW
Iím sure those are the most reliable
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:29 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
BMW has sold their two seater Z car with a 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder options for nearly twenty years, why would that change when Toyota pays them to slap a different badge on it?

And now that they have pesky problems like bearing failure and leaky oil filters sorted out the b48/b58 are solid for turbo motors.
It looks that Toyota wanted initially to focus on a single engine 6-cylinder option and to not hurt the sales of their other models. BMW didn't have all these years something similar to the 86/BRZ, since they were selling basically sedans, SUV's and hatchbacks. So, it was easier for them to offer the Z4 with a two engine option. At least the way I read the club4ag article, it seemed to me that offering also the 4-cylinder option was a later decision. Either they think that the 6-cylinder would be too expensive in specific countries and will offer only the 4-cylinder option or they will offer both options in all countries and gradually phase out the 86/BRZ as it was noted at the beginning of this topic.
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Old 07-21-2018, 08:41 PM   #284
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I dunno, I think there will only be an I6. With N/A or turbo as an option.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:40 PM   #285
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I dunno, I think there will only be an I6. With N/A or turbo as an option.
The BMW I6 was never designed to ever run N/A, none of the bmw motors of the past 8 years were ever intended to run without a turbo.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:46 PM   #286
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The BMW I6 was never designed to ever run N/A, none of the bmw motors of the past 8 years were ever intended to run without a turbo.
Thanks, I didn't know all BMW I6's were all turbo.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:48 PM   #287
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Thanks, I didn't know all BMW I6's were all turbo.
Yeah BMW has been all turbo since 2013, the v8 M3 was the last NA BMW
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:50 AM   #288
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I want to know the real reason BMW killed off the E46 M3, with that I6 NA engine ( all for V8 glory) ?? Must Evolve to something bigger, more powerful
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Old 07-22-2018, 08:02 AM   #289
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I want to know the real reason BMW killed off the E46 M3, with that I6 NA engine ( all for V8 glory) ?? Must Evolve to something bigger, more powerful


Because the S54 was a dinosaur of an engine, with its heavy iron block, no variable valve timing (forget about lift), and solid lifters in 2008! The new N52/54 6 cylinders were too new and untested to build an M engine from, so the easiest way to make a new, modern, more powerful unit for the next M3 was to take the M5 V10 and cut 2 cylinders off.
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:05 AM   #290
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I want to know the real reason BMW killed off the E46 M3, with that I6 NA engine ( all for V8 glory) ?? Must Evolve to something bigger, more powerful
Inline sixes make for great engines but mediocre cars
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Old 07-24-2018, 06:17 PM   #291
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Only facts. Did you look at the referenced material or just post this remark? The material said "Supra (GT86;J29)" If Toyota were to keep the Twin 86, why would they also use that designation for the Supra? Think about it....

If you think this logic is wrong, please tell all of us your analysis....
I agree.

The more important point is the sports car segment is definitely a declining segment, so why would Toyota allocate more R&D dollars when they're coming off a 6 year engineering effort to further pass the twins' spec sheet (i.e. lower center of gravity than the twins).

The rebuttal to my statement above is, the rumors from April stating that Subaru and Toyota are moving forward with the next gen BRZ/GT86. So as long as Toyota/BMW/Subaru can keep finding partners to split the R&D bill, then we can keep expecting to see the revival of a dying breed.

#SaveTheManual
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Old 07-25-2018, 12:46 AM   #292
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@HachiRokuX - can't quote you for some reason


So many people get mad at me when I say that much of the Supra/2JZ mystic is from video games and movies but why else would a bunch of 20 something's have such a love affair with a car most have never even seen in person much less actually drove?


Even Toyota recognized this condition when they made the formal announcement that the FT1 would indeed be called the Supra.



"The Toyota Supra still enjoys an iconic status among sports car aficionados, 16 years on from the end of production. Its enduring popularity has been helped by its success as a popular model in the Gran Turismoģ driving simulator video game series, which is only playable on PlayStation consoles, and as a starring car in the first film in The Fast and the Furious global action movie series."
http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases...ng+concept.htm


They know who they are targeting with this car and it may not be the group that can actually afford it.
I owned a MK4 Turbo from 2004 to 2010 and went through the whole 'supraforums' lifestyle. I would say a big part of it's popularity was it's modability. The fact that an exhaust, an increase in boost and a better air filter could net big gains and the fact that aftermarket part options were plentiful and not too expensive. I liked the car mostly because of Gran Turismo 2 and I won't lie, I was 15 when Fast and the Furious hit theatres and that was also a big part of me wanting one.

I ended up putting a Garret t04Z on mine and making really good power, but at that point tyres started becoming really expensive and traction was a cross your fingers and hope for the best affair. The Supra was basically a cruise missile, you pointed it and fired and got shoved into the back of your seat. It wasn't awful in the corners, but it was definitely more of a GT car. The big cast iron block up front made sure of that.

At the end of the day I feel much more confident pushing a 1250 car through twisty roads than I did the almost 1600kg Supra. I didn't sell it because I was unsatisfied with it, I really enjoyed it. I sold it to make a prudent life decision and pay a big chunk for my Masters course.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:49 AM   #293
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I agree.

The more important point is the sports car segment is definitely a declining segment, so why would Toyota allocate more R&D dollars when they're coming off a 6 year engineering effort to further pass the twins' spec sheet (i.e. lower center of gravity than the twins).

The rebuttal to my statement above is, the rumors from April stating that Subaru and Toyota are moving forward with the next gen BRZ/GT86. So as long as Toyota/BMW/Subaru can keep finding partners to split the R&D bill, then we can keep expecting to see the revival of a dying breed.

#SaveTheManual
So, let's assume we are both correct and have these assumptions:

1. The FT86 designation was not a mistake on the transmission document.
2. Toyota will not have more than 2 sports cars.
3. There will be a next gen 86 in 2021 as the rumor says.
4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.
5. There will be a 4 cyl Supra.
6. Subaru will continue the emphasis on 4WD family vehicles.

Furthermore, let's assume all of these points are true. Deductively, I can think of only solution where this is the case: There is a 6 cyl Supra and a 4 cyl 86 based on the Supra chassis. Then it would make sense to have the transmissions made by the same company. Which 4 cyl engine? BMW or Subaru? I don't have a clue. Subaru could then concentrate on their growth segment and not have to produce a low volume sports car, but could benefit from a BRZ made with the new chassis. Toyota could then profitably develop one basic sports car with two personalities.

Before all of you jump on this, this is pure deductive logic. There may be other scenarios where all of the above assumptions are true, but I haven't been able to come up with one. I just don't think the FT86 designation on the transmission document was a mistake -- but that is always possible. And I can't see a public company like Toyota make the financial decision to have 3 cars in a declining segment as that would not be fiscally responsible -- and they do have a legal fiduciary responsibility to shareholders to make the most money they can....

I guess we will find out the truth in a couple of years....
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Old 07-25-2018, 02:12 AM   #294
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4. Tada stated that you need a different chassis on the current 86 to handle more power properly.
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