2017 BRZ vs MX5 RF

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Calvin27

The price gap is still the biggest issue.

$5k buys you headers, tune, coils and tyres. At that point the miata is toast.

The miata advantage is it has a larger following and lots more older guys with deeper pockets.

if you mean the rf, sure. if you mean the miata, youre wrong. i feel like the fact that you said "coils" or didnt include tires or brakes in your 5k build, means it might be hard to explain but still.

[Calvin27]

Originally Posted by fatoni

if you mean the rf, sure. if you mean the miata, youre wrong. i feel like the fact that you said "coils" or didnt include tires or brakes in your 5k build, means it might be hard to explain but still.

Yeah I included 'tyres'. The article was Australian, no?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

What's your point, that Mazda will never make a Miata coupe?

Oh good, you posted the reason Mazda will never do that again so I don't have to.

Originally Posted by Calvin27

The price gap is still the biggest issue.

$5k buys you headers, tune, coils and tyres. At that point the miata is toast.

The miata advantage is it has a larger following and lots more older guys with deeper pockets.

The Miata is >400 lbs lighter, has a shorter wheelbase, and has better suspension design. The Miata advantage is that it's chassis is the least compromised, most focused design under $50k.

The following isn't terribly large, the 86 outsold the NC after only 3 years, and the ND is putting up worse numbers than the NC did.

[swarb]

RF adds another ~175-200lbs. The big weight advantage isn't so big anymore.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Calvin27

Yeah I included 'tyres'. The article was Australian, no?

my bad on the tires thing. i think the point still stands.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh good, you posted the reason Mazda will never do that again so I don't have to.

So even though Mazda made a Miata coupe for both the NA and NB, it's suddenly ridiculous to wish they made another coupe?

Did you just put down a deposit on an RF or something? You seem a little tender.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

So even though Mazda made a Miata coupe for both the NA and NB, it's suddenly ridiculous to wish they made another coupe?

Did you just put down a deposit on an RF or something? You seem a little tender.

They tried to sell them and nobody bought them. If demand was there they would sell them.

No, I just think that too many people think car companies do things on a whim when these things cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop. That's what is ridiculous, assuming that these simple ideas aren't explored regularly by auto manufacturers.

"Why doesn't it have more power?!?!"
"Why isn't it lighter?!?!"
"Why doesn't it have a hatch?!?!"

"How hard can it be?!?!"

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

They tried to sell them and nobody bought them. If demand was there they would sell them.

No, I just think that too many people think car companies do things on a whim when these things cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop. That's what is ridiculous, assuming that these simple ideas aren't explored regularly by auto manufacturers.

"Why doesn't it have more power?!?!"
"Why isn't it lighter?!?!"
"Why doesn't it have a hatch?!?!"

"How hard can it be?!?!"

Have you seen the resale prices on a legitimate Miata coupe? Obviously there is some demand for them.


There are plenty of examples of "loss leaders" in automotive history, and I think that if Mazda brought a Miata fixed top coupe to the states in limited numbers it would become an instant classic, while getting a lot of attention from people who don't usually like Miatas. Especially considering that they won't be building an RX9.


Instead they gave us something that doesn't really have a purpose aside from looking good. You talk about low weight and suspension geometry, but I don't see why anyone would choose a RF over a vert if they had any desire to track their car occasionally. Can an average size person with a helmet even fit in a RF with the top up?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Have you seen the resale prices on a legitimate Miata coupe? Obviously there is some demand for them.

No I haven't, but I have seen prices for M Coupes though, they rival new M cars.

http://www.mcoupebuyersguide.com/listings

http://www.mcoupebuyersguide.com/listing?ListingID=3920

The bottom line is that the <100 people willing to pay for that car every year to keep the market moving is not enough to justify the tens of millions of dollars it would cost to start rolling them out of the factory.

Same exact story for the Miata coupe, sounds like at best they built a few hundred. Loss Leaders only work if the loss isn't astronomical or the company has cash to burn (Ford subsidizes higher Mustang trims with lower trim sales, and Toyota LFA, respectively), Mazda is not in that position anymore, (nor Subaru in a tangent). They NEED to sell enough to not take millions of dollars of losses on the project, <1k units won't cut it unless each one is priced over $50k. That's why special Porsche's cost so much, it's not the materials or engineering, it's the low production volume relative to the costs of developing each individual model.

As for the validity of the RF, lots and lots of people bought the PRHT for the NC, this article claims it was the majority actually, 52-48

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/09/11/2...ardtop-report/

The sad fact is most people don't buy sports cars to drive them hard, appreciate nimbleness and suspension geometry in a way where <100 lbs makes a difference. The durability and security of the hardtop is a clear win if you can take the performance hit.

Interesting you mention weight, the NA coupe concept was apparently significantly heavier and they had no plans to optimize the weight.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...miata-m-coupe/

And looking at the brochure for the NB coupe, it clocked in at 1100 kg w/ the 1.8L compared to 2387 lbs for a US spec 1.8L, so about 35 lbs heavier for the coupe assuming fluids are the same in both measurements.

http://s110.photobucket.com/user/saz..._0002.jpg.html

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

They tried to sell them and nobody bought them. If demand was there they would sell them.

So "tried to sell them" means only available in the JDM?

To me, "tried to sell them" would have meant available in the biggest sports car market in the world, AKA America.

But that's just me...?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

So "tried to sell them" means only available in the JDM?

To me, "tried to sell them" would have meant available in the biggest sports car market in the world, AKA America.

But that's just me...?

I wasn't there either, probably didn't want to go through US crash testing.

idk you'd hope Mazda has better market analysis than some guy on the internet. There's a reason we don't get lots of things, cost is high, rewards are low. I can't fathom a reason why they wouldn't sell many things here if they were projected to be profitable, Mazda6 Wagon, M wagons, Renaults, etc.

If Mazda developed a Sky-Activ dildo that was projected to be a billion dollar product they'd fucking create a subsidiary and put it on the market by the end of the year. Corporations have little shame, nor pride when it comes to making profits.

#Hitachi

[DAEMANO]

The review highlighted many factors that matter in a way that other reviews have not (especially how MSRP on a low cost car really matters, and also about how factory suspension settings affect day to day livability.) I thought this was one of the more thoughtful reviews on the subject I've seen.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I wasn't there either, probably didn't want to go through US crash testing.

idk you'd hope Mazda has better market analysis than some guy on the internet. There's a reason we don't get lots of things, cost is high, rewards are low. I can't fathom a reason why they wouldn't sell many things here if they were projected to be profitable, Mazda6 Wagon, M wagons, Renaults, etc.

If Mazda developed a Sky-Activ dildo that was projected to be a billion dollar product they'd fucking create a subsidiary and put it on the market by the end of the year. Corporations have little shame, nor pride when it comes to making profits.

#Hitachi

I don't disagree with those points, but that doesn't mean "they tried".

Furthermore, you're forgetting one of the biggest reasons they never took the Miata coupe beyond concept form. At that time Mazda ALREADY had a 2 door fixed roof coupe. Perhaps you've heard of it, it was called the RX-7
Hell, depending on the year they already had TWO 2 door fixed roof coupes - the other being the MX-6.

How many 2 door coupes does Mazda currently have? Oh yeah, zero.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

At that time Mazda ALREADY had a 2 door fixed roof coupe.

In 2003 it was just the RX-8 when the NB coupe was in production. The fact that they don't make one now is even more evidence that they don't believe they can make a viable product for that niche.