BRZ/FR-S vs 2015 Mustang

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by chulooz

So wouldnt you think the z28 performs incredibly well against $400,000+ exotics, you waste 4x the money on one car that doesnt even perform better than chevy's tricked out camaro?. It doesnt matter what you think the car is a rocket and hardly a novelty. Yes, we all know its still a camaro

It depends on what you buy a car for. If I buy a car for the reasons you state, the Z/28 is stupid because the Corvette is cheaper and faster.

If you buy a LFA for reasons you should buy a LFA, you still buy the LFA even if the Camaro can go to the moon and back while doing your laundry for you. Or you could pay a little bit more and blow the z/28 away by 20 seconds. Even though it's just a LFA.

Some people just don't seem to understand exotic cars. People must be reaaal stupid to buy an Aston V8 Vantage over a Lancer Evo!

[TruRace]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

It depends on what you buy a car for. If I buy a car for the reasons you state, the Z/28 is stupid because the Corvette is cheaper and faster.

If you buy a LFA for reasons you should buy a LFA, you still buy the LFA even if the Camaro can go to the moon and back while doing your laundry for you. Or you could pay a little bit more and blow the z/28 away by 20 seconds. Even though it's just a LFA.

Some people just don't seem to understand exotic cars. People must be reaaal stupid to buy an Aston V8 Vantage over a Lancer Evo!

Which corvette is cheaper and faster?

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by TruRace

Which corvette is cheaper and faster?

New C7 starting at $51K. Z/28 is going to more than $60-65K.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/...ette-stingray/

"So far GM has been mum on the C7 Corvette Stingray’s Nurburgring time but we just know that setting a fast lap would be on the table. Remember that 7:19.63 Corvette ZR1 time that was set by Mero in 2011? While they were in Germany for that test session, the Corvette team also ran the 2011 Corvette Z06 with the Z07 package which earned a lap time of 7:22.68. As the Stingray was faster than the 2011 Corvette Z06 with the Z07 package and Michelin’s Pilot Sport Cup tires at VIR, can we assume that the C7 Corvette Stingray will be faster on the Nordschleife?"


No wonder GM is keeping the official times secret.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

I
Some people just don't seem to understand exotic cars. People must be reaaal stupid to buy an Aston V8 Vantage over a Lancer Evo!

You were the one saying why pay more when you get less while comparing the vette vs camaro, I was just showing you that people do and will pay more for looks and prestige ie exotics. Chevy wins with either choice you make.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by chulooz

You were the one saying why pay more when you get less while comparing the vette vs camaro, I was just showing you that people do and will pay more for looks and prestige ie exotics. Chevy wins with either choice you make.

Okay then, so you agree w/ my original point that the reason anyone buys the Z28 is looks not performance.

Btw, rereading your previous post does not at all sound like what you just said at all. Sounds like the opposite in fact.

[Kiske]

Somewhere in this thread there is a conversation about a 2014 mustang vs the twins... hehe


I think despite the diet and shrinkage the engine placement, and high center of gravity will still not hold a candle to the stock 86 twins feel. Even if it blows us away at a light.

[chulooz]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

Okay then, so you agree w/ my original point that the reason anyone buys the Z28 is looks not performance.

Btw, rereading your previous post does not at all sound like what you just said at all.

Not looks but prestige, value, exclusivity, absurdity, or 'because I want the fastest camaro ever offered'(performance).

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

New C7 starting at $51K. Z/28 is going to more than $60-65K.

http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2013/...ette-stingray/

"So far GM has been mum on the C7 Corvette Stingray’s Nurburgring time but we just know that setting a fast lap would be on the table. Remember that 7:19.63 Corvette ZR1 time that was set by Mero in 2011? While they were in Germany for that test session, the Corvette team also ran the 2011 Corvette Z06 with the Z07 package which earned a lap time of 7:22.68. As the Stingray was faster than the 2011 Corvette Z06 with the Z07 package and Michelin’s Pilot Sport Cup tires at VIR, can we assume that the C7 Corvette Stingray will be faster on the Nordschleife?"


No wonder GM is keeping the official times secret.

I have yet to see the VIR comparison verified and I have serious doubts about the C7 eclipsing a Z07 C6 same track same day same driver. The laws of physics don't support a heavier car with less power on relatively skinny PSS's out gunning the lighter, more powerful ZO6 on cups. Regardless a $60,000 Z51 C7 will be the most performance per dollar available on the planet. If the C7 Z? is earth shattering, I may give up the 427 Vert for one.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

I have yet to see the VIR comparison verified and I have serious doubts about the C7 eclipsing a Z07 C6 same track same day same driver. The laws of physics don't support a heavier car with less power on relatively skinny PSS's out gunning the lighter, more powerful ZO6 on cups. Regardless a $60,000 Z51 C7 will be the most performance per dollar available on the planet. If the C7 Z? is earth shattering, I may give up the 427 Vert for one.

I agree, but it could get close and definitely better than the z/28. It does have better traction management, aero, and perhaps braking fwiw.
____

But yeah, this is a Mustang/twins thread so I'm off the derail.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by SigmaHyperion

For the first 25 years of its life, the Mustang was quite small. It debuted at a mere 2,500lbs.

For half its 50-year lifespan it managed to remain under 3000lbs,

The original '64-'65 was pretty small and lightweight, but the '67-'68, '69-'70, and '71-'73 iterations each gained in size and weight, up to ~3600 lb max. Basically gained nearly 1000 lb in less than 10 years! I have no idea why those are all considered "1st gen" Mustangs, seems like four very distinctive generations to me...
Then the Mustang II came out in '74, much smaller and lighter at ~2800 lb for a v8 model, but God what an ugly little spud... A buddy of mine in high school in the 80s had the "King Cobra" version of the "Cobra II", which was basically a Mustang II with a buncha decals. What a damn freakshow...
Then the Fox Mustang replaced the Mustang II, 4.9/5.0 v8 versions were ~3000-3200 over those years. 90s SN95 5.0 Mustangs were also ~3200 lb., but they gained weight again when they went to the OHC and DOHC "mod" motors in '96. The top DOHC V8 versions were ~3400 lb., and the ultimate supercharged Cobra versions in '03/'04 were pushing 3700 lb.
The 2005+ S197s are a LOT bulkier and heavier, ~3600+ for V8 models, ~3800+ for supercharged GT500s.

Anyway, LOTS of weight fluctuation over the years!

Very much looking forward to the 2015 with IRS. I sincerely hope the rumors of losing 400 lb. are true, 3200 lb. for a V8 model would be OK with me. But targeted weight savings are rarely achieved...

[ThisIsChrisKim]

Originally Posted by SigmaHyperion

Pony cars, the Mustang and Camaro, were always supposed to be small. And were for quite some time.

It's only with the rapid demise of the true muscle cars in the late 70s, that had the Pony cars move up to fill their gaps in the late 80's

For the first 25 years of its life, the Mustang was quite small. It debuted at a mere 2,500lbs. Keep in mind, that a full-size car at that time, like the Galaxie, tipped the scales at nearly 4,000lbs. The Mustang, in its time, was even smaller and lighter than the BRZ/FRS is compared to many of its modern peers.

For half its 50-year lifespan it managed to remain under 3000lbs, and now tops 3,500lbs. A modern Mustang is now only 300lbs shy its full-size sedan brethren the Taurus. In 1964 it was seperated from the Galaxie by over 1,300lbs.

So the Mustang could lose HALF A TON, and still remain as disparate today from Ford's lineup as it was 50 years ago when it debuted.

The weights of all cars have increased by around that much, no? A Civic or Corolla from 25+ years ago were less than 2000lbs, if I remember correctly. But today's versions easily top 2800lbs. Current LS460 easily tops 4200lbs and then AWD L versions top over 4600lbs.

Imagine if we had car weights from then with the engines of today. We'd be getting like 60mpg+. Although I'd be fearful of getting into crashes with those chassis from back in the day.

[Turbowned]

I guess we can only wait, watch, and hope at this point.

[Anaxilus]

Originally Posted by ThisIsChrisKim

The weights of all cars have increased by around that much, no? A Civic or Corolla from 25+ years ago were less than 2000lbs, if I remember correctly.

No not that light, you might be thinking CRX. Civics and Corollas were around 23-2400lbs 25 years ago. At least the one I had. Personally I'd cap all DD sedans and coupes at 2500lbs max. I think that's around the max weight to offer the best agility and response to deal with various unsafe scenarios one would encounter at typical driving speeds. People would enjoy driving more, be more involved and aware, get better mileage, etc.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Anaxilus

No not that light, you might be thinking CRX. Civics and Corollas were around 23-2400lbs 25 years ago. At least the one I had. Personally I'd cap all DD sedans and coupes at 2500lbs max. I think that's around the max weight to offer the best agility and response to deal with various unsafe scenarios one would encounter at typical driving speeds. People would enjoy driving more, be more involved and aware, get better mileage, etc.

for the love of god, please just look things up before you state them as fact.