How is this not an RX8?

[Prof1ig8tor]

This car, and its market, seem to nearly overlap the RX-8 in every category. Curious why we (me included) didn't buy the RX-8 if we want a light rear wheel drive sports car with a unique engine?

Also, what are the opinions about how many of these will sell? Reported numbers for the BRZ state Subaru is expecting sales of about 3,000 units a year, which is a mere drop in the US market (and about how the RX8 has fared).

Really interested in others' opinions on this.

[fatoni]

i think it just boils down the the rotary. for me at least the low tq and gas mileage combined with the high maintenance or at least awareness of that motor was a turn off. not to mention that it was pricey.

[Henwee]

RX8 in Canada here STARTS at 42k. That might explains why I want a FRS which is going to be around 32k instead of a RX8.

[SUB-FT86]

The RX8 is the FT86's closest rival IMHO!!

They are both 2+2,RWD,Sports coupe with a power to weight ratio that nearly comes close to each other(An intake at least would make them have the same P2W ratio). They both have engines with a low CoG and there prices might be 2-3k apart from each other. It's closer to the RX than the miata.

[Ice_Man]

im working for mazda and i can tell you, if the engine was the same as in the mazda 3 MPS, i would have bought one.... but the wankel engine isn`t as good as it should be in such a sports car.

[Prof1ig8tor]

RX-8 ... 3,000 lbs

Power [hp]: 232 at 8,500
Torque [lb-ft]: 159 at 5,500

FS-1 ... 2,700 lbs ?
Power .... 200 at a guessed 6,500 RPM
Torque ... 170 (?)

Looks to me like a fat man makes the difference in a dead heat. We will have to see the torque curve, final gearing, etc ... but the RX8 is known as a great handler and has a very functional (if a little odd looking) cabin.

I think my lust for a FS-1 (BRZ, Scion thingy) has made me refocus on something that could be had for ten grand in the used market. I used to build rotor motors in high school and never understood their reputation for poor reliability. There is not much there to go wrong and if you do blow an apex seal it is easy to fix. With underdrive pulleys we would run them north of 11,000 RPM without any problems (without the under drive pulleys the engine accessories aren't designed for those kind of RPM). I even ripped the rear suspension out of one shifting into second one day, but the engine was unbreakable even with the crazy stuff we were inflicting on them.

[Neutral_Eyes]

The RX-8 was a little to expensive for what you get, and I didn't want to deal with the long-term reliability unknowns and low mileage/torque. The half-doors were kinda weird, too. I think if they put the 16X in a lighter coupe, I'm down.

[Prof1ig8tor]

Originally Posted by Ice_Man

im working for mazda and i can tell you, if the engine was the same as in the mazda 3 MPS, i would have bought one.... but the wankel engine isn`t as good as it should be in such a sports car.

That's really interesting. Because of the low RPM torque and fuel consumption?

Have you ever heard a Ferrari at parking lot speeds? Aside from the fact it sounds great, there is a lot of RPM and clutch slippage going on. Kinda interesting to me that characteristics that are acceptable in an exotic, or rocket bike are deemed bad in a moderately priced sports car.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Prof1ig8tor

That's really interesting. Because of the low RPM torque and fuel consumption?

Have you ever heard a Ferrari at parking lot speeds? Aside from the fact it sounds great, there is a lot of RPM and clutch slippage going on. Kinda interesting to me that characteristics that are acceptable in an exotic, or rocket bike are deemed bad in a moderately priced sports car.

i think the problem is that people dont buy sports cars for parking lot speeds so that doesnt matter

[old greg]

Originally Posted by Ice_Man

if the engine was the same as in the mazda 3 MPS, i would have bought one.

As much as I think the rotary can be absolutely badass in a track car (I would sell my right nut for a PP'd 20b with high compression rotors and a 10k redline), I wouldn't want to live with a Renesis in my daily driver. No torque, terrible fuel economy, oil consumption, easily flooded if shut down while cold. It's just not a good street motor, it's pretty much the only reason I didn't buy one the last time I went car shopping.

[SUB-FT86]

I agree with all of the negatives everyone has mentioned about the RX8.

[Scottyscooter]

I do think of the FRS/BRZ as an RX8 in spirit. I mean, they are both lightweight cars that focus on balance and handling. The advantage that I see with the toyobaru is its more conventional piston engine, which no doubt will be more reliable, require less maintenance, and provide much better fuel economy. The Renessis rotary proved itself to be an unreliable, high maintenance engine that provides terrible fuel economy.

I'm not trying to totally crap on the RX8. They are pretty amazing cars and the rotary does have some strong points such as a nice linear power delivery, the compact size that allowed the RX8 to have a front mid layout, and a sound that is completely unique in the automotive world. Its just that there are a lot of negatives that you need to be willing to live with alongside the positives.

So since your asking the question: How is this not an RX8?
The answer is of course THE ENGINE.

In spirit they are the same car, though.

[spin9k]

Originally Posted by Prof1ig8tor

This car, and its market, seem to nearly overlap the RX-8 in every category. Curious why we (me included) didn't buy the RX-8 if we want a light rear wheel drive sports car with a unique engine?

It's too weird [read not mainstream] for most people. But I did buy one 8+ yrs ago and it has been, and still is, a great sports car, an amazing track car , and a car that puts a smile on your face every time you get behind the wheel.

Many of the negatives peps mention are simply urban legand, or what they've read, or heard. Some do have validity, but not worth debating really, peps have their opinions. I've walked the walk and know fact from fiction.

What I AM stoked about is that people see the value in the attributes that always made the RX-8 great. This new Toybaru looks to provide a similar experience in a slightly less radical, less controversal, more familiar vehicle. It's certainly looks to be no less a drivers car.

And I can attest that there's not much more rewarding than driving a car that fits, feels, and handles like it's an extension of your mind. :happy0180:

[70NYD]

the only thing that the ft86 has on the rx8 at the moment is mileage, because i know it will be better.. anything has better mileage haha..
but handling, acceleration, and overall car will need to be compared when it actually comes out.
and rotaries dont have bad reliability, they have stupid owners who dont know how to maintain it properly.. thats how rumors start and spread like wild fire (remember the GT-R having a "weak" gearbox story when they first came out???)
i love my 8, and i cant wait to get the ft86