Subaru... what's so good about them?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Then, you need to drive EVO & Acura's SH-AWD. They're pretty damn good.

...but those sucker are pricy than Subie

I've driven both, but not on a slick surface, so I can't give my opinion on them in the context of what I was talking about. They're both better feeling on dry than Subie's setup (as is the BMW xDrive, for that matter, and I would assume the Porsche Panamera 4 as well, though I haven't driven a Panamera hard on the dry). Both the Panamera and the xDrive were too rear-biased to be really good on the slick though. They work, but they're really tail happy if you're trying to drive hard. Audis have the opposite problem - they tend to push, especially under power. Subarus turn in nicely, both under power and off power, and then can do glorious, power-on 4 wheel drifts perfectly around the corner (to be fair, so can Audis, they're just harder to turn in initially).

I would be very curious to try an Evo on a slick surface, since it strikes me as perhaps the best alternative to Subaru's setup for hard driving with low grip, but I can't really judge it based on my experience. I will say this though - an STi is unbelievably fun on snow. Perfect turn in, great control, and I love the DCCD.

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I've driven both, but not on a slick surface, so I can't give my opinion on them in the context of what I was talking about. They're both better feeling on dry than Subie's setup (as is the BMW xDrive, for that matter, and I would assume the Porsche Panamera 4 as well, though I haven't driven a Panamera hard on the dry). Both the Panamera and the xDrive were too rear-biased to be really good on the slick though. They work, but they're really tail happy if you're trying to drive hard. Audis have the opposite problem - they tend to push, especially under power. Subarus turn in nicely, both under power and off power, and then can do glorious, power-on 4 wheel drifts perfectly around the corner (to be fair, so can Audis, they're just harder to turn in initially).

I would be very curious to try an Evo on a slick surface, since it strikes me as perhaps the best alternative to Subaru's setup for hard driving with low grip, but I can't really judge it based on my experience. I will say this though - an STi is unbelievably fun on snow. Perfect turn in, great control, and I love the DCCD.

Both a xDrive & Panamera is tail happy cuz their base cars are RWD vs Audi is FWD, so that's the biggest difference.

EVO is good even in slick surface, but you might feel Audi feel to it, due to base setup for EVO is FWD (but I'm talking bout EVO III~VI-ish).

Acura's SH-AWD is great in slick condition. I was expecting EVO feel, but I kinda got more of BMW feel to it, but better (just a lil bit).

All those cars are heavyweight compare to Subie, so that's one of the reason you might think Subie is better.

[hmong337]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

But you said, flat engine is the best. Were you lying? Don't you want the best for your MR2? Or you don't care for that car? MR2 became your POS beater car? If that's not the true, you want the best for your MR2, right?

You like the car? What car? What engine?

You're kidding, right?

I never said the flat engine is best. I just said that it would make for a mean design reminicent of the Porsche 917. And, curious why Subaru isn't in the big leagues in regards to road racing. Wtf does my mr2 have to do with any of this. I find it odd how when people have nothing else to say they go after my sw20. I never claimed it to be gods chariots nor will i ever. It's just a unique car I happen to pick up along the way. Weird, but people seem to have a problem with it..? Haters?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

All those cars are heavyweight compare to Subie, so that's one of the reason you might think Subie is better.

That's definitely a possibility. It's amazing the difference that weight can make.

[Captain Insano]

I think Subaru has proven themselves in the GT300 which is a Japanese focused race series as well as the WRC years back. They are Japanese smaller niche car manufacturer so for them, those are the "big stage" for their racing budget.

I wouldn't take their engineers lightly. If you have ever drove a very lightly modified WRX or STI (exhaust, tune, suspension tweaks) you would take them very seriously. Those are bad ass cars (I've owned two STI and one WRX) I owned before buying this BRZ. I have loved all my Subaru performance cars.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by hmong337

What??? I said the flat engine is the best???

See below, the 3rd post in this thread (and your second post):

Originally Posted by hmong337

Valid.

I guess what I'm after is... Why no screaming flat12 or flat10 in a LMP chassis? Why no road racing?

My comments directly address your question here.

In the end, factory works teams and cars are built with one thing in mind: marketing.

Win Sunday, sell Monday. They will actively participate in series that make sense for the cars they sell, and obviously want to use the rules presented to put together a competitive package that appeals to both their core corporate philosophy, and their target audience.

That's why Subaru won't use an outrageous flat engine for road racing other than what they've done with the GT300 BRZ. Not unless another SVX-type car is in the works.

-alex

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by hmong337

You're kidding, right?

I never said the flat engine is best. I just said that it would make for a mean design reminicent of the Porsche 917. And, curious why Subaru isn't in the big leagues in regards to road racing. Wtf does my mr2 have to do with any of this. I find it odd how when people have nothing else to say they go after my sw20. I never claimed it to be gods chariots nor will i ever. It's just a unique car I happen to pick up along the way. Weird, but people seem to have a problem with it..? Haters?

Wow, Toyota fanboi, calm down.

When did you said flat engine is the best? Here you go

Originally Posted by hmong337

What??? I said the flat engine is the best???

Or was that a troll? but you stated, you're not trolling in OP. Or was that a question?

WTF does your MR2 got any with this thread? Same as Subie don't give a f'ck about making F1 engine.

Porsche 917 was great. Why they didn't make it more or put money into it? Cuz THEY'RE WASTE OF MONEY!!!!!!! HIGHLY MAINTEMANCE COST, CRAPPY PERFORMANCE THAN OTHER ENGINE, CAN'T GET ANY POWER & TOO DAMN HEAVY!

Attack on your MR2? Who would do such thing? Heavens no! Those Toyota hater must be banned! SMH If you think, I was attacking on your MR2, you need to calm down & re-read my posts. You stated, you don't sugarcoat it, so I follow same way as you, Don't sugarcoat it... but you think, I'm attacking your MR2? It was blunt question without attacking on your MR2.

I can keep going, but I feel bad, so I'll keep it simple for you.

It doesn't matter how much Subaru fanboys say, fact remains:
They took 1st 2yrs in the row in VLN 24hrs in their class.
WRC, they were King.
Set a record as fastest 4-dr (stock) in the Nur.
Subaru don't give a shit about F1.
Boxer engine fail hard as F1 engine.
No, Subaru isn't planning to make H10 or even H12 engine.
Subaru finally found where their market is, so they don't give a shit about other market (as of now).

If those fact come to you as joke, don't take Subaru seriously. It'll be waste of time.

Originally Posted by chrisl

That's definitely a possibility. It's amazing the difference that weight can make.

Yeah weight is the biggest different it makes into any cars, but AWD, less weight they need to move it, easier on AWD system

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by mav1178

See below, the 3rd post in this thread (and your second post):




My comments directly address your question here.

In the end, factory works teams and cars are built with one thing in mind: marketing.

Win Sunday, sell Monday. They will actively participate in series that make sense for the cars they sell, and obviously want to use the rules presented to put together a competitive package that appeals to both their core corporate philosophy, and their target audience.

That's why Subaru won't use an outrageous flat engine for road racing other than what they've done with the GT300 BRZ. Not unless another SVX-type car is in the works.

-alex

Also flat engines aren't great for packaging and aero in a race setup. Something like a wide 135° V is apparently the best compromise.

Flat engines are really not optimal in a front engine setup. Compare the twins with an aluminum H4 with the Supra's iron block L6. Supra manages equal or better F:R weight distribution with an engine that is 3x cylinder bores longer AND has room for proper double wishbone suspension in the front.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by rice_classic

Subaru admitted that if it weren't for Toyota, they would not exist today.

Subaru is a niche brand. Seriously, if it weren't for Turbo+AWD they wouldn't exist today because the majority of their cars have looks only a mother could love and interiors that often times aren't as nice as the price tag would suggest (especially on the STI's). The Outback and Forrester can only go so far and if those models were not AWD, I bet Subaru would be a thing of the past. The AWD and Turbo niche has proven to be big enough to survive but the coming MPG/CAFE/MOT requirements means they may have to ditch AWD to hit their fleet averages. Of course, this is all opinion so don't take it too personally eh.

I think the BRZ is the only Subaru I've enjoyed looking at. I find it unfortunate that I think the new Camry is a more exciting design than the new WRX.

As much as I enjoy pointing out that Subaru is a vassal of Toyota, one could counter argue that if GM had kept their filthy hands off of Subaru, Subaru wouldn't have needed Toyota now.





Heh...

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by Dimman

As much as I enjoy pointing out that Subaru is a vassal of Toyota, one could counter argue that if GM had kept their filthy hands off of Subaru, Subaru wouldn't have needed Toyota now.

Thank you for completing the puzzle.




...And good lord this thread moves fast. I posted, went to the garage to do a brake job, come back and we're on page 4?!

[WingsofWar]

-_- this is a weird thread..

Why is Subaru taken seriously when they are not competing at the so called "highest form of racing"? Its because they are good at what they do on the consumer level. F1 and FIA racing isn't a benchmark for the automotive industry its just bragging rights in found only in a window of onlookers.

Take a PC builder for example (manufacturer), you could build a bad ass rig (car) with 4 Nvidia Titan GPUs, Overclock the fucker.. and run all sorts of benchmarks(racing) on it and score incredibly high, and be like "YEAHH LOOK AT THAT NUMBERS IM THE BEST!". But is it really the best? Sure it runs games(sanction) flawlessly...but is it the best?

You use the same rig and find that it SUCKS at performing against large computational data streams or creating big 3D environments as a modeler.

Problem with seeing F1 and FIA as the Highest Benchmark is that you are putting horse blinders on and ignoring the possibilities that Subaru is doing the best that it can at the highest Level of performance on the consumer/grass roots level.

In WBO boxing The highest levels of performance is found within all weight divisions and not just 1..aka Heavy Weight.

IMO F1 is a passtime, really now for the good ol guys and the men with deep pockets. Don't get too swept up as to why Subaru doesn't wish to compete in those events.

If i had a thriving car company, big racing events aren't a big business priority as it helps nobody but my own ego. And makes me seem like a pretentious asshole anyway.

[Photonic]

Ichitaka in response to

Originally Posted by hmong337
"What??? I said the flat engine is the best???"

I notice you are not good at english. But it seems "I said flat engine is the best?" was meant as a question. what he was implying was "When Did i say that?"

Ie .."I said flat engine best desu ka?"

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by Photonic

Ichitaka in response to

Originally Posted by hmong337
"What??? I said the flat engine is the best???"

I notice you are not good at english. But it seems "I said flat engine is the best?" was meant as a question. what he was implying was "When Did i say that?"

Ie .."I said flat engine best desu ka?"

You're correct, but you're miss the point that, what's the point of making this thread, if he think subaru is a joke brand.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

You're correct, but you're miss the point that, what's the point of making this thread, if he think subaru is a joke brand.

Same reason he said a forum member deserve to total their car after the said forum member had just totaled his FRS?