New Here! Tracking with Old Stock Tires (in the rain, first time)?

[Zycle]

I did a track school with my previous car, 13 Honda CR-Z, in sunny warm conditions. I didn't like the hybrid system running out and some organizations don't allow them on track. The seats were also unable to hold me in place, and I had head clearance issues with a helmet. It also had way too much body roll and I didn't want to start doing modifications. I prefer to just sell + use that money I would have spent to get a better stock car that meets my needs. So I sold the CR-Z and bought a 2013 FR-S with low mileage (18000 miles) which addresses these issues.

Mainly bought the car because I want to do more tracking (it is very addictive) but still have as an only car (I don't need car for commuting). There is an open track session coming up (with dedicated novice group), I'm excited, but it is suppose to be very wet that day. I'm still on the stock summer tires, maybe only 14000 miles on them, have winter tires too, 7mm out of 10mm tread left all around. How are they in the rain on our cars for track driving? They are nearly 6 years old (probably more if they sat in stock at the factory). I'd hate to get rid of tires with lots of life left. Is it safe to track them at all (never mind in the rain)? This would be my second time on track ever, so very new driver, first time with RWD. RWD sounded fun (cue image of Jeremy Clarkson drifting while reading), but it is actually intimidating me quite a bit. TC VSC will be left on! I turned it off for autocross and I spun out (was raining) so those went back on! I never spun in the CR-Z. I'm trying to "get back on the bike" and get over that by doing some more performance driving sooner rather than later. Especially want to get comfortable before the snow hits.


I've read over the track tips post, good advice there!


The car I hope to keep for a long time

[cjd]

They're likely to be sorely lacking in traction, but safety is really down to the driver. You will not be setting any track records.

They're not very well regarded brand new. They're quiet and light - good for fuel economy. They're summer tires, so lack traction in cold. At six years and rain, I'd expect them to feel pretty sketchy.

[Joesurf79]

Mainly bought the car because I want to do more tracking
^^RAD! You'll love it - once you're hooked, you're hooked!!^^


I'm still on the stock summer tires, maybe only 14000 miles on them, have winter tires too, 7mm out of 10mm tread left all around. How are they in the rain on our cars for track driving? They are nearly 6 years old (probably more if they sat in stock at the factory). I'd hate to get rid of tires with lots of life left. Is it safe to track them at all (never mind in the rain)?
^^The stock tires suck in the rain when new. BUT that means that in this gem of a chassis, with the phenomenal balance that it has, you'll LEARN car control safely, at safe speeds and have a BLAST doing it!!! Inspect the tires thoroughly for cracks, splits, or anything funny looking. If they're that old and have anything weird looking, they're not worth running on track. Tires have a "shelf life" that is independent of treadwear. ^^^


This would be my second time on track ever, so very new driver, first time with RWD. RWD sounded fun (cue image of Jeremy Clarkson drifting while reading), but it is actually intimidating me quite a bit. TC VSC will be left on! I turned it off for autocross and I spun out (was raining) so those went back on! I never spun in the CR-Z. I'm trying to "get back on the bike" and get over that by doing some more performance driving sooner rather than later. Especially want to get comfortable before the snow hits.

^^ You'll have an instructor right? Clarkson is hella entertaining and all the tail out smoke show antics are entertaining, but that is the slowest way imaginable around the track I instruct for a group in Texas, and unless my driver is 1) consistent and smooth 2) driving fast enough on a proper line that the nannies are hindering their pace - I insist they leave them on. The nannies are intrusive in this car, but unless they are upsetting the chassis, it's better that way. The moment you learn that you can steer the with the throttle, and that if the car feels like it's "ON RAILLLSSS" - you should be going faster - Your paradigm shifts and the real fun begins

The wet just cuts lateral traction further. We all spin at some point- don't let it intimidate you it's not the end of the world. No Damage, then no worries. The key is to APPROACH the limit of traction, don't blow right past it and spin - you'll never know when or where you crossed the line. If you approach it SLOWLY and progressively, you'll start to learn to key in on clues and signs that the car is sending you that you're going to lose traction if you ask for more. Managing right at the edge of that traction in every inch of every corner seperates good drivers from wicked fast drivers. ^^

I've read over the track tips post, good advice there!
You can get a book for cheap on Amazon called "Speed Secrets" by Ross Bentley. Classic, beneficial read. Get it. And enjoy a lifetime of track driving.


The car I hope to keep for a long time
^^Welcome to the fold They'll pry mine from my cold dead hands!^

[GrandSport]

Odds are the age won't matter on them because it's going to be raining. And you're new. But man, it's easy to go sailing off the track in the wet. Be careful.

[Zycle]

Thanks for the advice! Sounds like I will be slow (rain + crap tires + new car + 2nd track event) but that will give me plenty of opportunity to figure out the car, while learning how to drive correctly and at slow less intimidating speeds. I'm registered in a beginner group so I (hopefully) won't be holding up people. Each group has a max size of 14 people.


I have a report of things to work on from my first track session so I'll continue on where I left off. I have a bad habit of early apexing (maybe from doing so much autocross? It is my go to excuse ). I've loaded up an exact stock configuration of the FRS in Forza 7 (not that racing games can be trusted to be accurate) with a Logitech G27 (I think low end decent wheel for simulation? Atleast it has clutch + shifter) to try to break this habit. The game seems to actually recognize this and gives me a "perfect corner" feedback and a "good corner" feedback when I early apex (I think anything short of going off track gives you a "good corner" feedback. I have probably driven more hours in my simulated FR-S then my actual car! I'll be searching for some good (non-game oriented) simulation such as IRACING that have FR-S to practice with. Unless simulation doesn't help, maybe you are learning the simulator and not actual skills.


I think my reason for early apexing is not looking far enough ahead. I get fixated on the apex so of course I steer too much and get there too early. I like this gif:

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving...ng_visualfield

[Mr.ac]

Lol. Video game sims are only good for knowing the track layout. But that's not really 100% right. They could have redone the track or block some sections off.

If they offer instructors for free or at lest cheap take them on. Way better having a second head or just some dude telling where to lift/brake and floor it.

[new2subaru]

What track are you going to be on?


Don't worry at all about holding anyone up. Just signal them around if need be.


EDIT: Get an instructor if you can. It's worth every penny.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Mr.ac

Lol. Video game sims are only good for knowing the track layout. But that's not really 100% right. They could have redone the track or block some sections off.

If they offer instructors for free or at lest cheap take them on. Way better having a second head or just some dude telling where to lift/brake and floor it.

I agree. I learned a lot of bad habits from playing Assetto Corsa.

Lower traction tires are not a big deal when learning. You learn to explore the limits of traction at a lower speed. I wish I spent more time on something less grippy when I started out.

[Zycle]

No formal instructors for this session, but I've heard experienced drivers are often willing to ride along and lend their knowledge. Next session I do will have instructors. Track is Grand Bend ON, flat, no walls.


My plan is to wear out the stock tires before upgrading.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Zycle

No formal instructors for this session, but I've heard experienced drivers are often willing to ride along and lend their knowledge. Next session I do will have instructors. Track is Grand Bend ON, flat, no walls.


My plan is to wear out the stock tires before upgrading.

Haven't been to this track yet but I've heard it's very well run. No walls and flat is good! lol

Good plan on the tires. I used the stock tires for the first few times too but wanted to keep them in descent shape for cooler weather. Have fun!

[Zycle]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

Haven't been to this track yet but I've heard it's very well run. No walls and flat is good! lol

Good plan on the tires. I used the stock tires for the first few times too but wanted to keep them in descent shape for cooler weather. Have fun!

I've heard that as well, and online youtube videos of the track days look well controlled.


I was also considering keeping the tires for regular driving and buying a separate set of wheels for track/autocross but the tires are over 6 years old so they need to get used up .

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by Zycle

I've heard that as well, and online youtube videos of the track days look well controlled.


I was also considering keeping the tires for regular driving and buying a separate set of wheels for track/autocross but the tires are over 6 years old so they need to get used up .

6 years old, eh lol

[Zycle]

Thought I'd just update. Thanks for the encouragement! It was pretty dicey on the one fast straight of the track as the rain was forming puddles in the braking zone up to the corner after. Would get up to 155kph before braking. However, stayed on the track, didn't touch grass, didn't spin out. It was very quiet given how cold and rainy it was so there were no run groups (about 15 people showed up) and because of the rain my brakes never got hot so I got lots of seat time! My tires didn't even get warm!

I used VSC SPORT most of the day. I enjoy the bit of slip it gives before activating. I tried to drive just under the activation/slip point. I did two laps at the end of the day with everything off just to try (I knew where things to hit were, and very light traffic). End up drifting a 180 degree large corner at 60 kph and not spinning out! Drifting is a guilty fun, it is slow, but amusing.

Had a couple guest ride alongs with me. People are still curious 6 years after the initial release. I'm don't mind taking passengers as long as they are willing to put up with my driving. Car makes people smile, people were surprised the amount of inherent grip the car has despite the now 6 year old crap tires.

I also got some good instruction from an experienced driver. Can't believe I was the only twin there!

Been doing a lot more autocrosses too recently. I love the aesthetic of the car so I'm quite upset at the scratches in my clear coat on the bumper from some cone hits. I try tapping up the bumper but it falls off in the rain and it is hard to predict cone hit areas. One of those things you only see at 1 foot from the car in the right light. Is it possible to keep a car in a show room condition and track / autocross it? I'm starting to doubt it unless I wrap the car in clear vinyl.

[atomicalex]

Originally Posted by Zycle

Is it possible to keep a car in a show room condition and track / autocross it? I'm starting to doubt it unless I wrap the car in clear vinyl.

Not really. Battle scars, man. Battle scars.