Rock Hard Brake pedal in the middle of an autocross run...

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by acro

Thanks for the explanation, I wonder if cars sold to countries that will never see ice have this as part of the coding?

It's essentially for any ultra low grip condition. Ice just happens to be the most common.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by Element Tuning

I don't drive like this but a modern ABS system should allow you to mash the pedal and ABS itself until the car comes to a complete stop. This is what the average person does in a panic stop when they are about to crash into someone.

On stock brakes, tires, suspension, etc. this is exactly how it works. Should a panic stop be attempted while on ice or some other really low traction situation, cutting the brake booster prevents wheel lockup - remember, the A stands for Anti-lock - which allows the driver to retain control of the car while still being able to slow down somewhat.

Let's face it, if you panic brake on ice, you are probably screwed. The lesser of evils at that point is to retain control of the car so you can do something to avoid/mitigate harm. If the wheels are locked your fate is decided.

The fact that the system activates on the race track is because you're operating outside the design basis of the system. If you have serious aero, brakes, suspension, tires, etc. you need to have serious ABS to go with it.

[rx3]

Originally Posted by renfield90

Let's face it, if you panic brake on ice, you are probably screwed.

Not too long ago cars didn't have ABS and when one was braking too hard the front wheels would lock and the car would at least keep the direction it was going.

Also, locking up the wheels is the safest thing one can do if one looses control of the car. For example, many people crash inside of a turn, because they don't lock up the wheels after they lost the rear.

For lack of a better example:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_E5OnkSHys"]COURSE DE COTE 2012 St.Ursanne - CH - CRASH- Race aside 2012 St.Ursanne - CH - CRASH - YouTube[/ame]
I'm not saying the guy in the video didn't lock up the wheels, but this is the kind of crash one gets to see when people don't lock up the wheels after loosing their rear.

[rx3]

OT: A very competitive car up to 1.6 l at our slalom events is the Citroën Saxo & Peugeot 106 Rallye. A few of them were sold without ABS. None of the competitors are driving the version with ABS.

[renfield90]

Originally Posted by rx3

Not too long ago cars didn't have ABS and when one was braking too hard the front wheels would lock and the car would at least keep the direction it was going.

Also, locking up the wheels is the safest thing one can do if one looses control of the car. For example, many people crash inside of a turn, because they don't lock up the wheels after they lost the rear.

My previous car did not have ABS so I'm well aware of what it's like. I agree that, in a motorsports situation, often times the best thing to do when you have irrevocably lost control is to lock your wheels up. Your path is predictable at that point.

The video is not a great example. The car starts to go before the rear tires leave the road, and it's theoretically able to be saved at this point. When his rear tire drops off the grass he has less than a second before he's shooting into the inside embankment; by the time he's back on the pavement, he's already headed inside even if he locks his brakes. Really tough to make the right call there when it happens that fast and your first thought is "I can save this."

[rx3]

I agree that this guy had probably not really a chance to save the situation. But I just needed a short video showing an inside turn crash after loosing the rear.

[liquidsky44]

Encountered multiple Ice mode throughout the day even after doing the pedal dance during gymkhana. Need to jab at the brakes to transfer the weight to the front in order for the car to rotate, but the Ice mode kicked in causing the car to plow straight.[ame="http://youtu.be/WVckzOiFwV8"]http://youtu.be/WVckzOiFwV8[/ame]

[cjd]

Originally Posted by liquidsky44

Encountered multiple Ice mode throughout the day even after doing the pedal dance during gymkhana. Need to jab at the brakes to transfer the weight to the front in order for the car to rotate, but the Ice mode kicked in causing the car to plow straight.

In my experience, ice mode is easier to get with pedal dance, and aggressive brake pedal use is a sure way to do so. I've not yet adjusted my driving at autocross where its beneficial to PD. It may never be, it I'll keep experimenting here and there.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by liquidsky44

Encountered multiple Ice mode throughout the day even after doing the pedal dance during gymkhana. Need to jab at the brakes to transfer the weight to the front in order for the car to rotate, but the Ice mode kicked in causing the car to plow straight.

Squeeze, not stab.

[liquidsky44]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Squeeze, not stab.

I need sudden weight transfer for gymkhana layout. Its not possible because the distance is too small and at full speed is still in 1st gear.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by liquidsky44

I need sudden weight transfer for gymkhana layout. Its not possible because the distance is too small and at full speed is still in 1st gear.

Learn to squeeze, or accept that stabbing will result in ice mode.

Up to you.

Or, disable your ABS completely, and see what stabbing will do when the aids aren't covering up your driving error.

[TrqlessWonder]

Idk. That looks like you tried something that the car/tires just wasn't gonna do. I would suggest that better-separated inputs would have resolved what you experienced. You're putting in lots of (and increasing) steering as you get heavier on the pedal (:07-:09). I'd kind of expect to overwhelm the front tires and plow forward with that combo of inputs. More so if either the front or rear tires are way differently hot. Which, a 360-degree donut-to-slideways exit would do a pretty good job of.

Btw, what was the failed element supposed to be? Another 360? 90-right? Stop box? A less selectively edited video would be helpful.

If the next (failed) element is another 360 like the first one, the problem is that your hand is on the gearknob, not the parking brake.