FRS vs...?

[bdohazelnuts]

This thread really got me thinking and looking at the FR-S from a cost effectiveness standpoint.

My thoughts on it are this: Essentially, there is no car in the world, that outperforms the FR-S for the money... Period.

I look at it like this... The cost differential between the FR-S, and just about any new car, put into the FR-S, would have the FR-S soundly beating the other car.

Some of the characteristics of the FR-S just aren't matchable, particularly if the FR-S is heavily modified.

You can only get the center of gravity so low in other cars - to match the FR-S, most cars (due to engine layout, weight, etc) would have to be submarines, and sit below the concrete line.

Add that to the engine that the real potential of has only barely been scratched? And you have a car that, for the price, is a world-beater.

[Ryephile]

Outperform is entirely depending on your metrics of interest. If we're talking subjective preferences, then it's even less tangible.

The only metric you mention is CoG, which is only one tiny facet of performance.

IMO, there are a few cars in the mid $20's on the market that can fit in the sporty category but each are a different solution. Which you choose depends on your preferences.
*Mazda MX-5 Miata
*Hyundai Genesis Coupe
*MINI Cooper S
*Fiat 500 Abarth
*VW GTI

Want a small simple coupe? Then the FR-S/BRZ is your choice. Want fuel efficient and carefree with a rorty exhaust note? The Abarth is a shoe-in. Looking for "more is better", the Gen Coupe is your ride. Want a telepathic convertible, then the Miata is perfect.

FR-S versus the world? Depends what you want, but I wouldn't say it unilaterally outperforms everything, even in its price category.

[TRD_86]

..... that is why the 86/FRS/BRZ is almost second to none in term of pure balance and handling sport car for the look/weight/power/engineering/price class
what else do you want to throw in ?

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bdohazelnuts

This thread really got me thinking and looking at the FR-S from a cost effectiveness standpoint.

My thoughts on it are this: Essentially, there is no car in the world, that outperforms the FR-S for the money... Period.

I look at it like this... The cost differential between the FR-S, and just about any new car, put into the FR-S, would have the FR-S soundly beating the other car.

Some of the characteristics of the FR-S just aren't matchable, particularly if the FR-S is heavily modified.

You can only get the center of gravity so low in other cars - to match the FR-S, most cars (due to engine layout, weight, etc) would have to be submarines, and sit below the concrete line.

Add that to the engine that the real potential of has only barely been scratched? And you have a car that, for the price, is a world-beater.

either your math is off or your english is off.

the mazda2 (basically anything cheaper since sports cars are affected by diminishing returns) is a more cost effective option.

stock for stock or mod for mod, the mustang gt is both cheaper and faster. you can buy a brand new miata, supercharger, rollbar, and suspension for cheaper than a brz.

there are also many qualities of other cars that the frs cant match.

cog is a way overrated datapoint on this forum and somehow people always fail to note how far forward it is.

there is nothing world beating about this engine really.

all that being said, i really do think this car is good. it doesnt pretend to be anything that it isnt. they built a really good sports car.

[bdohazelnuts]

Originally Posted by fatoni

either your math is off or your english is off.

the mazda2 (basically anything cheaper since sports cars are affected by diminishing returns) is a more cost effective option.

stock for stock or mod for mod, the mustang gt is both cheaper and faster. you can buy a brand new miata, supercharger, rollbar, and suspension for cheaper than a brz.

there are also many qualities of other cars that the frs cant match.

cog is a way overrated datapoint on this forum and somehow people always fail to note how far forward it is.

there is nothing world beating about this engine really.

all that being said, i really do think this car is good. it doesnt pretend to be anything that it isnt. they built a really good sports car.

You can't buy a new Miata for that these days. The NC Miatas are too heavy and expensive. I drove two Miatas before my FR-S (NA NA, and a turbo NB), and the feel from the FR-S is better than either.

The engine is absolutely amazing. Given proper time to let the tuners and turbo geniuses work with it... The square bore/stroke, 180 degree layout, and heads that will handle over 9k, allow for this car to be ridiculous with the right turbo (3.8k to 9k powerband).

Mustangs? Really? GT is NOT cheaper. And spend the money in the difference between the two, and you have a turbo or supercharged FR-S, and the GT is then NOT faster.

Genesis coupe is a GT car, and too heavy comparatively (but still an awesome car)

Mazda 2 and Abarth both have power going to the wrong set of wheels.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by bdohazelnuts

You can't buy a new Miata for that these days. The NC Miatas are too heavy and expensive. I drove two Miatas before my FR-S (NA NA, and a turbo NB), and the feel from the FR-S is better than either.

The engine is absolutely amazing. Given proper time to let the tuners and turbo geniuses work with it... The square bore/stroke, 180 degree layout, and heads that will handle over 9k, allow for this car to be ridiculous with the right turbo (3.8k to 9k powerband).

Mustangs? Really? GT is NOT cheaper. And spend the money in the difference between the two, and you have a turbo or supercharged FR-S, and the GT is then NOT faster.

Genesis coupe is a GT car, and too heavy comparatively (but still an awesome car)

Mazda 2 and Abarth both have power going to the wrong set of wheels.

new miatas can be had at that price. thats why i wrote that. also, miatas may be heavy, but they are lighter than the frs by hundreds of pounds and they are not even the heaviest version of the miata.

the engine feels good but it is still only two liters and it is a pretty high compression engine. i dont think using an untapped and entirely arbitrary potential that we havent seen is a selling point. if things like that worked the lakers would be the best team in the league.

a mustang gt is cheaper at least half of the time. even if it wasnt, dollar for dollar, the mustang gt will run circles around the frs. i have no idea what you are talking about here.

i never mentioned the genesis but great.

wrong wheels or not, the mazda2 is a better perfromance for your dollar. you cant argue that.

[orthojoe]

Ugh. Here we go again. So many people in this forum are delusional. The BRZ/FRS is a HORRIBLE performance car. A cruddy base V6 mustang will spank the car around a track. Documented by Pobst.

Our cars are great sports cars with fantastic driving dynamics and feel, but they do not perform well.

[YourFearlessLeader]

performance.... such a subjective subject.

I just like driving it. I don't care how fast I'm actually going.

[Mr. Man]

If you want the best bang for your buck, build yourself a caterham. Starts at like 30k and you can put whatever powertrain you can cram in there

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

...I just like driving it. I don't care how fast I'm actually going.

Fun, that's what sports cars are all about at their core.

[cuddefred]

+1. Sums it up perfectly

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

performance.... such a subjective subject.

I just like driving it. I don't care how fast I'm actually going.

[fatoni]

performance isnt subjective. its purely objective. the frs is a very good sports car not because it performs well, but because it feels good doing it.

[YourFearlessLeader]

Originally Posted by fatoni

performance isnt subjective. its purely objective. the frs is a very good sports car not because it performs well, but because it feels good doing it.

some people thinks it performs well, and some don't, thats all.

very difficult to argue that its fun to drive though

[DanoFA20]

Originally Posted by YourFearlessLeader

some people thinks it performs well, and some don't, thats all.

very difficult to argue that its fun to drive though

maybe its because the operator doesnt know what they are doing LAWL. idk ive driven a lot of different performance cars i find this one to be special and have a lot of soul and it does perform well. i just came out of an E36 M3 and it was heavily modded i find the FRS to be very great for cornering just like the M3 is. but thats just my outlook others are entitled to their opinion.