Base Cayman vs BRZ

[SUB-FT86]

This thread is the only one that speaks to me the most in the vs section. I pretty much turned my car into the front engine version of the new 718 2.0T even though I think this thread might be referencing the 2.7L 275hp motor. If I had the money I would get all the RWD sportscars that is both small, sleek and under 3000 lb in the USA.

Cayman S
86 turbo
Mx5 RF (with a low psi small turbo)
4c

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

Oh please, can we start another "what qualifies as a sports car" thread?

We could. And it's a minority opinion at best that a sedan or hatchback based on a grocery getter qualifies.

Originally Posted by r_rated

HINT: lots of extra weight and 4 doors don't qualify

Haha, bingo.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

We could. And it's a minority opinion at best that a sedan or hatchback based on a grocery getter qualifies.

Guess the 86 is out then

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

This thread is the only one that speaks to me the most in the vs section. I pretty much turned my car into the front engine version of the new 718 2.0T even though I think this thread might be referencing the 2.7L 275hp motor. If I had the money I would get all the RWD sportscars that is both small, sleek and under 3000 lb in the USA.

Cayman S
86 turbo
Mx5 RF (with a low psi small turbo)
4c

Oh man - that 4C was soooo close to perfection.... just needs a manual! Also, by perfection - I mean very flawed in so many ways but its italian and you love those flaws because they are character. Even the engine was something I did NOT want to like.... I'm a hater of the new boosted Porsches and will be buried in my 3.8 despite the performance gains.... the little boosted 4 banger in the 4C is fantastic [in that car].

Sports cars are not perfect, they are not all rounders, they are not a study of compromise. Most importantly, they do not sacrifice adding weight for comfort and convenience. The 86 fits perfect. The Cayman does this way better but don't you expect that for a car 3 to 4X the cost?

I love my Porsche [911] but keep stalking 86's and look for used ones that aren't perfect to get someone that I don't have to worry about. Porsche's attract much more attention and idiots. Not like an italian car but everyone wants to park next to you no matter how far away you park. Everyone wants to race.... it gets old. Also - my 911 is pristine and low mileage. Fully plastic wrapped and ceramic coated. Mint and perfectly modified. "Too nice" to just take wherever (i.e. Walmart- just kidding porsche owners go to target, grocery store, downtown, etc). This is the beauty of an 86!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Oh man - that 4C was soooo close to perfection.... just needs a manual! Also, by perfection - I mean very flawed in so many ways but its italian and you love those flaws because they are character. Even the engine was something I did NOT want to like.... I'm a hater of the new boosted Porsches and will be buried in my 3.8 despite the performance gains.... the little boosted 4 banger in the 4C is fantastic [in that car].

Sports cars are not perfect, they are not all rounders, they are not a study of compromise. Most importantly, they do not sacrifice adding weight for comfort and convenience. The 86 fits perfect. The Cayman does this way better but don't you expect that for a car 3 to 4X the cost?

I love my Porsche [911] but keep stalking 86's and look for used ones that aren't perfect to get someone that I don't have to worry about. Porsche's attract much more attention and idiots. Not like an italian car but everyone wants to park next to you no matter how far away you park. Everyone wants to race.... it gets old. Also - my 911 is pristine and low mileage. Fully plastic wrapped and ceramic coated. Mint and perfectly modified. "Too nice" to just take wherever (i.e. Walmart- just kidding porsche owners go to target, grocery store, downtown, etc). This is the beauty of an 86!

Agreed. Before my FRS I considered buying a Lotus Elise so I rented one for several days. It's a great driver's car, but I quickly realized how much attention I would get (both positive and negative). I couldn't justify spending 30k on a weekend car, when instead I could drive the FRS anywhere without having to worry much.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

Agreed. Before my FRS I considered buying a Lotus Elise so I rented one for several days. It's a great driver's car, but I quickly realized how much attention I would get (both positive and negative). I couldn't justify spending 30k on a weekend car, when instead I could drive the FRS anywhere without having to worry much.

i thought the same but then i bought the elise too. dumbest and smartest thing i ever did car wise. its dumb because my dd and track car are both the brz so that still means there are compromises in dual duty. best because i get to drive a brz every day which is great and then i can drive an elise when i want which is the greatest thing ive ever driven by a significant margin.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Oh man - that 4C was soooo close to perfection.... just needs a manual! Also, by perfection - I mean very flawed in so many ways but its italian and you love those flaws because they are character. Even the engine was something I did NOT want to like.... I'm a hater of the new boosted Porsches and will be buried in my 3.8 despite the performance gains.... the little boosted 4 banger in the 4C is fantastic [in that car].

Sports cars are not perfect, they are not all rounders, they are not a study of compromise. Most importantly, they do not sacrifice adding weight for comfort and convenience. The 86 fits perfect. The Cayman does this way better but don't you expect that for a car 3 to 4X the cost?

I love my Porsche [911] but keep stalking 86's and look for used ones that aren't perfect to get someone that I don't have to worry about. Porsche's attract much more attention and idiots. Not like an italian car but everyone wants to park next to you no matter how far away you park. Everyone wants to race.... it gets old. Also - my 911 is pristine and low mileage. Fully plastic wrapped and ceramic coated. Mint and perfectly modified. "Too nice" to just take wherever (i.e. Walmart- just kidding porsche owners go to target, grocery store, downtown, etc). This is the beauty of an 86!

Been there done that. Owned a precious 73 911s, could use it to buy 3 modern 911s if I kept it. I wanted to track it, daily it, etc. Just couldn't, too "precious" like your ceramic coated 911. In the end I decided it's much better to have a really fun car that I can experience all the time rather than a garage queen that I can experience 10% of the time. Plus I'm much faster at track events in a car in not so afraid to mess up

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[nikitopo]

I think guys in US have an issue with German quality cars. Probably too much hate. I live in Germany and I see Porsche's (more 911s and less Caymans) every day. People are using them as daily drivers and don't have any issue going even to the super market. In fact no one cares, apart from admiring a nice looking car.

If cost or space (2+2) wasn't an issue, I would prefer a Cayman 2.7 all day. It is a car ready from the factory and you'll have fun with it from day one. The 86 is another story, you'll need to modify it and then people will start questioning about your changes. No matter how well might be. It is not a coincidence that even the Cosworth kit was ridiculate by many in this forum.

And before idiots start here again a new argument that the 86 doesn't NEED modifications, I'll place the opinion of a Subaru official:

"Sports cars require high performance in all aspects.
There are a number of ways of increasing performance,
with engine power output probably the most recognizable.
Tyres with a high level of grip are also essential.
These items can all be modified by customers
after they have purchased a car.
Yet designing a low centre of gravity body from scratch
can only be achieved by the car's manufacturer.
And that is what we have done."

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think guys in US have an issue with German quality cars. Probably too much hate. I live in Germany and I see Porsche's (more 911s and less Caymans) every day. People are using them as daily drivers and don't have any issue going even to the super market. In fact no one cares, apart from admiring a nice looking car.

If cost or space (2+2) wasn't an issue, I would prefer a Cayman 2.7 all day. It is a car ready from the factory and you'll have fun with it from day one. The 86 is another story, you'll need to modify it and then people will start questioning about your changes. No matter how well might be. It is not a coincidence that even the Cosworth kit was ridiculate by many in this forum.

And before idiots start here again a new argument that the 86 doesn't NEED modifications, I'll place the opinion of a Subaru official:

"Sports cars require high performance in all aspects.
There are a number of ways of increasing performance,
with engine power output probably the most recognizable.
Tyres with a high level of grip are also essential.
These items can all be modified by customers
after they have purchased a car.
Yet designing a low centre of gravity body from scratch
can only be achieved by the car's manufacturer.
And that is what we have done."

I disagree, I've been having a lot of fun with mine for the last 20K and it's stock. I'm still amazed they pulled this off TBH.

I may, or may not add power mods. I'm still undecided at this point and that say's something. If I do it'll be just for shits and giggles not because it's necessary...

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

I think guys in US have an issue with German quality cars. Probably too much hate. I live in Germany and I see Porsche's (more 911s and less Caymans) every day. People are using them as daily drivers and don't have any issue going even to the super market. In fact no one cares, apart from admiring a nice looking car.

If cost or space (2+2) wasn't an issue, I would prefer a Cayman 2.7 all day. It is a car ready from the factory and you'll have fun with it from day one. The 86 is another story, you'll need to modify it and then people will start questioning about your changes. No matter how well might be. It is not a coincidence that even the Cosworth kit was ridiculate by many in this forum.

And before idiots start here again a new argument that the 86 doesn't NEED modifications, I'll place the opinion of a Subaru official:

"Sports cars require high performance in all aspects.
There are a number of ways of increasing performance,
with engine power output probably the most recognizable.
Tyres with a high level of grip are also essential.
These items can all be modified by customers
after they have purchased a car.
Yet designing a low centre of gravity body from scratch
can only be achieved by the car's manufacturer.
And that is what we have done."

The 86 doesn't NEED any modifications, it's a preference thing. Wait... does that make me an idiot now? Drat

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[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

I disagree, I've been having a lot of fun with mine for the last 20K and it's stock. I'm still amazed they pulled this off TBH.

I may, or may not add power mods. I'm still undecided at this point and that say's something. If I do it'll be just for shits and giggles not because it's necessary...

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

The 86 doesn't NEED any modifications, it's a preference thing. Wait... does that make me an idiot now? Drat

Maybe you misunderstood my statement. It needs modifications if you want to categorize it in the sports car segment. At least this is what Subaru believes. Have you read the official statement above? Check how the first proposition starts.

I agree that some people don't really need such a car. They might need a long distance commuter, or a bit fun to drive car, or just a nice looking car. So for them it is fine even in stock form.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Maybe you misunderstood my statement. It needs modifications if you want to categorize it in the sports car segment. At least this is what Subaru believes. Have you read the official statement above? Check how the first proposition starts.

I agree that some people don't really need such a car. They might need a long distance commuter, or a bit fun to drive car, or just a nice looking car. So for them it is fine even in stock form.

You're cherry picking. They said the opposite further on in the video...

"The BRZ has been developed to completely redefine this notion" That being overpowered cars. There are a LOT of over the top HP cars out there.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by new2subaru

You're cherry picking. They said the opposite further on in the video...

"The BRZ has been developed to completely redefine this notion" That being overpowered cars. There are a LOT of over the top HP cars out there.

Who said that a base Cayman is overpowered or a difficult to drive car? You don't get their point. They couldn't tell it more clear and in my opinion a 250-280hp on the flywheel would be the sweet spot for these cars. For xyz reasons they didn't do it. You can blame disagreement with Toyota, high costs, marketing and product placement or whatever.

[new2subaru]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Who said that a base Cayman is overpowered or a difficult to drive car? You don't get their point. They couldn't tell it more clear and in my opinion a 250-280hp on the flywheel would be the sweet spot for these cars. For xyz reasons they didn't do it. You can blame disagreement with Toyota, high costs, marketing and product placement or whatever.

I made no mention of the Cayman.

You took one single statement from the video about the BRZ needing more power, tires, etc to be a "sports car" I countered. The video was 8:27 long and you are talking about 8 seconds of it. The rest was dedicated to safety and handling.