Has BRZ value tanked or am I just being lowballed?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I get that. With my milage, beat up paint and worn seat I would be lucky to get $7k in a private sale and $5k for trade in. I knew and accepted that when I bought the car. My only beef is the constant repetition that there are ones that are not so worn for sub $10k prices all over the place. Yes they can be had but that does not make them the norm. A quick look at Florida ones shows about 20 listed in the $15 to $16 k range. That is far more than your 2 sub $10k examples. Now they are overpriced a bit so $13 to $14k would be a more accurate number. If they are all selling for under the book value either that regional market is saturated or there is something wrong with them. This is why it pays to be prepared to go outside your market if you are able.

Originally Posted by evomike

if 30k mile ones are selling for 12,9 70k mile cars are gonna be worth under 10 thats how it works man. you can argue all you want but that is what these cars are worth, they aren't ever going to be worth S2000 values they made too many of them.

Where did I say they were high value? Yes the higher mileage will be less. Cherry picking the low value ones and saying "they are all only going for this" is not accurate and is the only point I am arguing. At no point have I ever said they should be higher in value. They just are no worse than most other used cars is all.
Am I the only one here that ever bought a new car and watched it depreciate?

[RToyo86]

Location plays a big factor in pricing as well. 86's seem to sell quite well around my local area in ottawa. Seasonally they can sit on the lot during winter, but will be snatched up come summer time.

I got mine at the end of spring time late march, and they were just starting to pick up sales. I grabbed the last of around 10 in the city. The only ones left last I looked were automatics.

Currently there are two FRS's for sale at the local dealer. A 2014 and a 2015, both with 60,000 km. I presume they're lease returns. Both selling for 21k CAD.

Conversely when I purchased the 86 late march, there was a 2017 86 was sitting at a GMC dealer about a hour out of town which ended up sitting on the lot for 3 months before it sold for 24k, with 11,000km. It was listed for 28k originally but due to the weather, nobody was buying.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

We don't know for certain whether that car isn't an absolute mess. A car dealer doesn't just post a car for $3500 less than it's worth. I suspect there's either something mechanically wrong with the car, it has some rust damage underneath from Michigan winters, or that car isn't actually for sale and is just listed there to gather contact info to try to sell people something else.

https://www.varsityford.com/used-Ann...ZNAA15D1717327

Clean carfax. Got curious and looked at it. Doesn't look like a conspiracy. Although carfax does list some kind of unknown damage in February, lol.

[iggy]

Hahah, wow. This thread has really taken a life of its own.

Keep it up guys

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by iggy

Hahah, wow. This thread has really taken a life of its own.

Keep it up guys

[iggy]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by iggy

[iggy]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

If you need me, I'll be sitting in the corner and thinking about what i've done.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by iggy

If you need me, I'll be sitting in the corner and thinking about what i've done.

[pcguru2000]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There are many people that do not hammer on them and they buy it for many reason not just the Lotus handling. The assumption that it is just bought by people that want to play racecar is simply not accurate. There is still some pretty decent torque below the "dip" so no need to drive around ball out all the time. In fact I am not sure where people daily drive it where that is even possible. The use of the word "abused" was yours.

I was just wondering what you considered abuse. Doing a 90 degree turn at 45mph? Having the traction control activate 3-4 times a week? That's what I was asking.

Originally Posted by rvoll

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the vast majority of owners don't put on wide wheels/tires or FI and definitely don't lower their car. How do I know? Just get on Autotrader and look at the used BRZ's. Well over 90% are completely stock including wheels. And of the few that aren't, there are only a couple with wide wheels/tires. And most of the cars do not have extra high mileage.

You'd have to be an idiot to advertise in Socal a car that has any smog failing modifications. You have to get a smog check before you sell.

"A valid smog certificate, if applicable.
You do not need a certificate if you renewed your registration in the last 90 days (before the official transfer) and you submitted a smog certificate at that time. You will need to sign a document stating this.
If your vehicle is 4 years old or less, you are not required to provide a smog certificate to the buyer."


So you would need to remove smog failing engine mods, (SRI, CAI, any changes to intake, any changes to exhaust axle to engine unless you had a carb sticker for the mods which is too expensive and very few vendors put up the money to do it), you could fail visual inspection on vacuum hoses not looking right, it's really ridiculous, lets not mention cams that affect smog output which will fail the sniffer test if you are forced to do it.

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

I would say about 70% of the twins i see are stock with middle aged women in them, or young Asian females.

Funny, all the ones I pass are 50% hispanic women in their 20's and 25% white men and 25% hispanic men in their 20's. Can you please export some of your young asian females?

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

A lot get put back to stock for trade in since it is easier to recover costs but still the majority never get extensively modded in the first place. Lowering the car is one of the most common mods. Mine is lowered.

I disagree that lowering the car is the most common mod. Non FI intake modifications are probably the first just to let the car breath a little easier. They don't require a jack or to have the car lifted to make the modifications. I would do these before lower the car: axle back exhaust, then cat back, then exhaust manifold. Lowering your car changes other alignment parameters and taking it to a professional to get computer alignment would require additional expenditure. It's not exactly easy to self align your car.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Guru is in SoCal so may have a distorted perspective on the average owner.

That's because we have a distorted population demographics.

Originally Posted by rvoll

I don't know if "a lot" get put back to stock, but I agree that the majority never get extensively modded. Very few of the cars for sale were lowered. I doubt that most who have lowered their car put back the original springs, dampers, and readjust camber. I think lowering the car looks better, but for street driving, there is no real benefit and the ride comfort is reduced.

You never get the money back from the parts you put in. Carmax said it was okay for me to take my $1500 rims and tires and put the steelies back on my mitsubishi when they bought my car for 2K. They also said I could take off all the mods (strut tower bar, anti sway bar, slotted/drilled rotors) as long as I put it back to stock. So for them, having these extras on there, there's no financial advantage. You are better off stripping the parts and selling them to others for a large discount and get some of your money back and not violate smog laws in Cali or wherever you have them.

Originally Posted by gravitylover

It's really rare that I get much over 4k and highly unusual that the car goes over 5k. Even when I'm gettin' after it on back roads I'm usually running around 4k. It made a huge difference getting a stage 1 tune that almost completely eliminated the dip. That's the only mod I've done.

Without doing this you were pushing the car in the higher RPM band correct?

[rvoll]

@pcguru2000 -- Not everyone who buys a Twin lives on SoCal -- certainly heavy on car culture. Again, the vast majority of owners make no modifications and I would guess that the most common mod is getting new wheels/tires. Very few people do intake mods and even headers because the performance increase is minimal. Yeah, there will be some SoCal ricers who do this, along with taking out cats and putting in loud exhaust systems, but that market is extremely small. So taking out these mods for selling the car is just not a big deal for the vast majority of sellers. If you are a car enthusiast, you need to recognize that an extremely small percentage inhabit forums like this. Most just drive their cars and take it into a dealer if something goes wrong.

The Twins do not come with "steelies" so unless you saved your original rims, you sell the car with your new rims. In fact, if you look at Autotrader, you'll see there are a number of Twins with aftermarket rims. Again, only an extremely small number of people buy expensive rims -- most get theirs from Tirerack at low prices.

I get the sense that you think a lot more people mod their cars than actually do. The only real data we have are car listings on Autotrader, cars.com, eBay, etc. And there is very little evidence to the contrary. Again, you are certainly biased in your views from living in the car culture of SoCal. I grew up in SoCal and have lived in a number of different cities all over the U.S., so I can tell you that you won't find a whole lot of modded cars anyplace else with the possible exception of Texas. Yeah, there are ricers all over the place, but in very small numbers...

[rvoll]

For all of you that want to spend a lot on a used BRZ, this is just for you.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Subaru-BRZ/283004133694

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by evomike

im amazed people still use KBB as a source of what a car is worth, they are never correct and always way high on actual value of a car.

Yeah, wishful thinking from random people on the internet is always more accurate than actual sales data.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Am I the only one here that ever bought a new car and watched it depreciate?

No. You're just among the apparent minority who are not morons.

Originally Posted by rvoll

For all of you that want to spend a lot on a used BRZ, this is just for you.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Subaru-BRZ/283004133694

Wife: "I TOLD you to sell that damned car! We need the money for the roof!"

Husband: "I'm trying, but nobody will buy it!"

[rvoll]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Yeah, wishful thinking from random people on the internet is always more accurate than actual sales data.

I know you're trying to be cute, but KBB accuracy is a bit more complex than that. For high volume cars where there is lots of data, KBB is, in fact, fairly accurate. However, for lower volume cars like the Twins, it is far less accurate because it doesn't really use limited data to come up with the price, but it uses its model which is probably more predicated on the brand, rather than the car, using a standard depreciation curve. So in the case of the BRZ, it probably depends more on depreciation stats for the Subaru brand rather than the BRZ model. Thus, in the case of lower volume cars, random people on the internet may well be as close, or closer, than KBB.

Don't get me wrong, KBB is doing the best job it can at valuing cars and it is an excellent place to start. But just don't depend on it for cars like our BRZ. In fact, when you have a low volume car, regionality is even more problematic as the sales data is extremely low.