Long Term FR-S

[shawnperolis]

If the Scion brand was tanking and they planned on getting rid of all their cars, Toyota wouldn't have spent all of that money to fund the FR-S. Toyota has done the market research enough to make this car financially worthwhile for them. "Worst" case scenario is that the FRS gets rebranded as a Toyota.

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

That's what a lot of people thought about Pontiac and I'm sure Saturn too. Look what GM has done to them, Saturn is gone and Pontiac is shut down until they think they can bring it back, if at all. Scion is looking to go the same way. I'm pretty sure Pontiac did better than Scion has too.

I don't see anything in common between Saturn and Pontiac that were selected to terminate operations by arbitrary political decisions, not market forces.

GM's new union owners found it more convenient to shed those divisions and dozens of other GM dealerships as a taxpayer funded bailout condition instead of organized bankruptcy that would've forced needed reforms to their outdated benefits plans.

It's the subject of a lawsuit in NY that found government in violation of federal bankruptcy law while cutting secret backroom deals to their favored interests.

Scion is having it's problems right now, but compared to an earthquake and tsunami, those problems can and will be solved. I see zero chance of any Toyota division folding. Refreshing the product lineup by eliminating some models while introducing new vehicles quickly is the future. Toyota is positioned for the future, one of the few auto makers able to meet new CAFE and coming EPA regulations. Scion and Prius series will be leading the way.

[Exhaust]

Stopped reading at scion supra lmao!

[fistpoint]

The thing that is hurting Scion is the Pure Price garbage. Apparently the US isn't quite as stupid as Toyota originally hoped for.

If someone says they're(Scion) in trouble, look no further than Pure garbage Price.

[serith]

Originally Posted by boead

Its all about the numbers.

Example:
A $50,000 car (plus tax and fees) would cost approx. $1000/month for 5 years.

The same car leased would likely be less than half that for the first 2 or 3 years. And then you get another new one, indefinitely if that is what you want!
The less millage per year you drive the more of an advantage Leasing is.

For ANYONE that drives over 15000 miles per year, leasing is not financially positive or even possible.

ALSO the type of car, its residual value will also determine lease value. Expensive cars (MB's, BMW's, Porsche, Audi and so on) lease well.

2013 335i xDrive Coupe FULLY LOADED (top of the line)
Lease with NO money down ($0 at signing) is about $450/month for 3 years.
BUY with NO money down ($0 at signing) is about $1000/month for 5 years. Sure you own it BUT its value is relatively low and warrantee is over so maintenance expenses start to apply.

Sure, as long as you don't mind flushing money down the drain every month to always have a new car. What you're saying is true enough though, most dealerships will gladly try and get you out of your car loan if you're dumb enough to ask for a bigger one (banks will only let you finance so much money for a new car, so if you have a lot of negative equity you're SOL). Toyota's have a very low TCO (true cost to own). I'd suggest to instead save up the money to pay for a ~$20k car that will last, avoid leasing or financing (unless you can get a 0% loan and get some kind of return on your money, but then again it's nice to be debt free), and keep up with regular maintenance and enjoy not having a car payment for quite a while.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by fistpoint

The thing that is hurting Scion is the Pure Price garbage. Apparently the US isn't quite as stupid as Toyota originally hoped for.

If someone says they're(Scion) in trouble, look no further than Pure garbage Price.

What area are you in? Where I'm at I know the dealers were dying to charge a >$5k markup and they would have gotten it, instead they forced buyers to take clear bras, wheel locks, rear bumper appliques, bespoke, trunk mats, leather seats saying they were installed at the factory. Subaru's are still being listed here with $3k markups.

I appreciated the "pure price" once I finally got a dealer's nuts in a vice to sell me the car I wanted, MSRP is fair. It's not great and you can argue it's shit but it isn't highway robbery.

Originally Posted by serith

and keep up with regular maintenance and enjoy not having a car payment for quite a while.

Some people would prefer to have a new car than extra cash in the bank, I think it's a mostly American phenomenon of "keeping up with the joneses"

As much as I agree with you there's clearly a market for what is essentially renting a car.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

That's why you lease for 3 years, 36,000 miles and let it be someone else's problem later on. One thing this car has going for it is a large and fast-growing aftermarket, which means that even if something breaks and OE parts are ridiculous, there should be a decent aftermarket solution available to you.

maybe! if after market suppliers realize people will pay "just under" o.e.m.
that THAT will be your best break over time. no body's givin' nothin' away these days...just sayin'

[fistpoint]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I appreciated the "pure price" once I finally got a dealer's nuts in a vice to sell me the car I wanted, MSRP is fair. It's not great and you can argue it's shit but it isn't highway robbery.

Pure Price has nothing to do with MSRP...that's why you saw markups. My area(Texas) didn't seem to be affected by greedy dealers and all that I checked used MSRP, some had silly options, some were stock.

Either way, Pure Price never meant "must sell for MSRP". That is a common misconception. Pure Price simply meant you pay what you see. It could have been $100000.

http://www.scion.com/buy/pure_price

See, not a single word about MSRP. It used to have one more line of text that said: "dealers are free to set their own prices" that has been removed in the last few months.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

That's just it though, they've done a refresh of the tc once before and it hasn't helped. They'll do it again and have a little bump in sales, maybe, of repeat tc people, if they haven't gone to the FR-S or something else.

I think people (gen Y is smart) figured out that the TC has little to offer over a Sonic, the Tc is just a technically bland FWD with nice looks. Why they can't make it a Cobalt SS type FWD coupe I don't understand? Consumers are smarter than people think.

And the IQ? Sales are down almost 10%. If you want a micro car you want a 6 speed manual so you can hyper-mill and get 50mpg cruising around, why is that so hard to understand? The Yaris gets better real world fuel economy than the IQ and it only has a 5 speed manual. Who wants to bet on Scion parts for a one off Scion CVT in 10 years, I sure don't.

The biggest thing Scion had going for it was Toyota reliability. Toyota has the highest rated lean manufacturing infrastructure in the world. As much as I like my FR-S, it being the first reasonably price rwd sports coupe in over a decade is why I bought it, not Brand loyalty .

The Subaru engine with a first gen PI/DI complex motor makes one wonder if that Toyota reliability/longevity is truly there. I am not hearing of any mechanical changes to the motor for 2014 which is a big positive. But I don't think Toyota would be able to sell this car in the USA, it had to be a Scion due to the collaboration with Subaru.

Especially after the first 5k driving with a CEL. I think the Scion dealers are to blame for the brand's issues, they just aren't as educated or as in tune as a Honda or Subaru dealer, they aren't "car people". Every time I call and they pull up my car in their system as a 2013 Supra I just scratch my head.

Yesterday they finally said they found info that I need a new ECU, but they will not give a loaner car, have to wait there half a day. Time is money, I will just order a Visconi and be done with them.

I hope Scion has a bright future, but their market share has dropped a huge amount while other manufacturers have rebounded from the depression. Think about how almost all the Automakers are very successful now vs 4 years ago and Scion is holding on by a thread.

If it weren't for the FR-S "gimme", they would have surely been dropped by Toyota. I think a lot of folks buy the FR-S in spite of the Scion brand. And if their dealers don't treat these new Scion owners right, the brands future is very dismal.

[dori.]

maybe you should just go to a different dealer

[jstans84]

Originally Posted by dori.

maybe you should just go to a different dealer

^^^^ This.

The dealership I got mine from knew what the car was and were able to give me actual specs and info for the car.

Also the techs at my dealership know what they are doing.

[sevi21]

Well, imo im not too worried either way. If scion stops making them or not,
i have mine and i love everything about it, Plan on keeping it a while. But i doubt
they will stop making these cars any time soon, because like many others have
pointed out the car sells relatively well compared to other jdm sports coupes.
And for good reason, this is a fantastic car!

[JackTrasher]

Doesn't bother me either way. Once my life requires me to have a more practical vehicle (in ~5 years time most likely) this car will turn into a project car and any resemblence to stock will quickly vanish. It's a great chasis and perfect starting point for the loud, gutted, street-legal track monster I've always dreamed of.

[zbt]

Originally Posted by regal

they are so stupid they list the car as a 2013 Scion Supra

Priceless