Edelbrock E-force Owner's thread and FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions)

[Freude am Fahren]

That sounds a lot like when I had a bad MAF in my BMW 325is (E36). Possibly bad sensor, or connection, or calibration?

[86fun]

To make it easier to view the log data I created a JPG of the graph view, but WAY too big for attachments on this site.. shared with Google... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5g...ew?usp=sharing

[86fun]

Originally Posted by Freude am Fahren

That sounds a lot like when I had a bad MAF in my BMW 325is (E36). Possibly bad sensor, or connection, or calibration?

Yea, not sure. I have been looking closer at the log. One thing I noticed is the computer changed to open loop mode, fuel status 2 -> 4, just as the hesitation started. Not sure this is a cause or effect of something else.


Another interesting thing is the AFR went from 14.59 to 11.94 as it switched from closed to open loop. Is that too much of a change that fast?

You can see the vehicle speed dips very slightly twice, indicating the hesitation/bucking. Lots of other things changed at about the 9sec mark. Interestingly all these values changed and things went bad yet I was nearly steady on the throttle.


Another thing I noticed is that during the cold start period, about 10-15sec after starting it does the usual high idle thing, but at times it will sound like everything just shuts down for a split second, then it fires back up idling. Definitely some strangeness going on here!

[86fun]

I don't want to give people the wrong impression, yea, I'm working through some strange issues, but 90% of it works great. Full throttle in any gear is amazing. I've made it through 4 gears so far and it's pretty solid. I thought I felt the ever so slightest surging in 3rd on one or two runs, but only compared to the NA power band's smoothness. The power is incredible from stock, to me it's a whole different car. I shifted hard into 3rd one run and it managed to step out the back (stock tires mind you). The car feels quick now, instead of slow. I'm used to turbo's and this is my first SC. I can't say the SC power band feels completely like NA, it definitely does not... if you're a hard core NA fan... but it's certainly more responsive than a turbo, and a bit easier to manage the power. It does still have a slight on/off feel to it, just not as pronounced. The bottom line is I'm looking forward to driving my car and enjoying it. Pretty happy with this addition, I just want to figure out the other 10% which makes daily driving a bit annoying (low RPM part throttle loads).

[tracerit]

Originally Posted by 86fun

To make it easier to view the log data I created a JPG of the graph view, but WAY too big for attachments on this site.. shared with Google... https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5g...ew?usp=sharing

Have you looked into using www.datazap.me to upload and view logs? Makes it a whole lot easier to share as well.

Just curious, are you driving a manual or automatic? Is the hesitation more like bogging where you're lugging the engine? I sat in @shiumai's car for a demo and wanted to see what low rpm/high gear normal acceleration was like and in fourth gear (his is automatic) and just under 3k RPM he mentioned it was l ugging a bit. The proper gear is to be in third around that RPM range, but sometimes I'm a bit lazy haha. In my manual, it keeps the car going but there's no lugging. Auto and manual gearing are different anyways so maybe I can't really compare.

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by tracerit

Just curious, are you driving a manual or automatic? Is the hesitation more like bogging where you're lugging the engine? I sat in @shiumai's car for a demo and wanted to see what low rpm/high gear normal acceleration was like and in fourth gear (his is automatic) and just under 3k RPM he mentioned it was l ugging a bit.

when driving in an RPM that's too low, there's just very little power (which is to be expected). but i don't recall any noticeable bucking or hesitation. there's very little acceleration when stomping on the gas at low RPMs, but it seems quite smooth.

i used to get the hesitation/lugging problem when i had my old 280Z - it had triple webers and didn't like to drive at low RPMs.

[86fun]

It's funny, I always thought people said an SC improves the bottom end. My comparison is against stock NA, and when driving around town or cruising casually I'm typically around 2-3k RPMs. Stock the car had no problems pulling smoothly with decent torque from even 1500 RPM, so I guess I'm surprised to find it bogging at closer to 3k now. The way it cuts out just doesn't seem like bogging though, I think I understand the difference, but I'll keep testing and checking it out, good insights! Maybe the kit does indeed take away the 2-3k RPM power band range....


For my logging test I purposely put in one higher gear just so the issue happened more slowly in the logs, to identify the issue, but it does happen in all gears and load levels in the 2-3k RPM range. Maybe when I get it dyno'd from 2k RPMs to redline it will show up more clearly...

[86fun]

Originally Posted by tracerit

Have you looked into using www.datazap.me to upload and view logs? Makes it a whole lot easier to share as well.

Just curious, are you driving a manual or automatic? Is the hesitation more like bogging where you're lugging the engine? I sat in @shiumai's car for a demo and wanted to see what low rpm/high gear normal acceleration was like and in fourth gear (his is automatic) and just under 3k RPM he mentioned it was l ugging a bit. The proper gear is to be in third around that RPM range, but sometimes I'm a bit lazy haha. In my manual, it keeps the car going but there's no lugging. Auto and manual gearing are different anyways so maybe I can't really compare.

Thanks for the heads up! I've uploaded it, hope this link works...
http://www.datazap.me/u/86fun/low-rp...ta=2-3-4-5-6-7

[shiumai]

Originally Posted by 86fun

It's funny, I always thought people said an SC improves the bottom end. My comparison is against stock NA, and when driving around town or cruising casually I'm typically around 2-3k RPMs. Stock the car had no problems pulling smoothly with decent torque from even 1500 RPM, so I guess I'm surprised to find it bogging at closer to 3k now. The way it cuts out just doesn't seem like bogging though, I think I understand the difference, but I'll keep testing and checking it out, good insights! Maybe the kit does indeed take away the 2-3k RPM power band range....


For my logging test I purposely put in one higher gear just so the issue happened more slowly in the logs, to identify the issue, but it does happen in all gears and load levels in the 2-3k RPM range. Maybe when I get it dyno'd from 2k RPMs to redline it will show up more clearly...

The SC doesn't take away any power from stock in the 2k-3k range (it adds more); it just doesn't ADD that much in that range such that the butt dyno can notice. I'm surprised you said that "Stock the car had no problems pulling smoothly with decent torque from even 1500 RPM"; I felt that it lacked any punch when it was stock until I hit about 4500 RPM.

So, compared with the rest of the RPM range where it really starts making a big difference over stock, low RPMs can make it feel like it's slow in comparison, because you've 'recalibrated' what feels normal now with the SC. As others have mentioned, it won't feel much different from stock until you get past 3k RPM. But, i don't think it shouldn't be bogging down unless you're just in way too low a gear. At least, it shouldn't be cutting out or hesitating; it should just lack any torque if you're in too high a gear.

[86fun]

Here is the way I see lugging in too low a gear compared to the hesitation and bucking I'm getting...


With too low a gear the engine/drivetrain vibrates and there is no acceleration with any kind of input of throttle. The power delivery is still smooth. I'm calling that lugging.


With what I'm experiencing it's different. At first the car begins to accelerate quite well and then it just stops and slows down, then bounces back to life and once again then dies out again over and over. It does accelerate but just very slowly due to the up and down of the power. If more throttle is applied the power reduces even more or does nothing at all.


In my logs you can see two distinct areas where the vehicle speed actually slows down at about the 9 and 11 sec marks. Other things took place at that same time in the log and I was experiencing the hesitation/bucking at that time. It doesn't feel normal at all, it feels like something is wrong with the car.


I'm thinking someone with experience looking at the log can come to a conclusion about what's happening there, something is off.

[toast]

Fuel trims are goofy when you feed in the throttle, long term learned are large and positive and short term are compensating in the opposite direction. It seems like you have a leak after the MAF. You can use starter fluid to look, little misting while the car is running and if the idle goes up you found it. Just be careful its flammable

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[86fun]

Toast, thanks for the info! I just went out and sprayed my whole engine, basically, with starter fluid.. around every air holding gasket/clamp/hose/sensor there is, even the really buried stuff under the SC, all the SC seals/mating surfaces, the idle didn't change. At that point I removed the PCV hose and just sprayed the stuff right into the intake and the idle didn't change either! I guess that test doesn't work too well for some reason! Wouldn't my idle really suck if there was an air leak?.. or be bouncing around? That's what I experienced in previous cars with air leaks, but this is a new animal to me.

[86fun]

I read a post about MAF scaling. I didn't fully understand it but I do recall it saying that if your fuel trims were out by more than a certain amount you should rescale the MAF. Looking at my logs the fuel trims are quite out of the range which suggests it should be rescaled.. wouldn't Edelbrock (or their tuner) already have thought of this though?

[Apoc]

You seem to have had some serious knock events since your advance multiplier is down to .4. I would suggest not running it hard or uphill at 1500 rpm until you get it sorted.