What do you foresee for future FR-S models?

[Justin.b]

I see no turbo in this car's future. They don't have the room to move the price to cover it, and they don't have the margin on this vehicle to eat the costs on their own end.

Impreza to WRX is an $8,000 premium, so it's likely that we'd be looking at a similar increase. That would land a turbo FR-S right at or above the starting price of a 370z which will have at least 50 and possibly 100 more ponies under the hood. Yes, the z will probably be about 300 pounds heavier. It may also have 100 more hp. If you're looking for stoplight battles, you'd likely take the slightly higher weight for the significant hp gain.

If hp is a problem for Toyota and Subaru in selling this car, they have hidden it well.

-Justin

[gily25]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

If a sports car needs to be fast 0-60 to remain relevent and successful, explain the Miata.

In production for over 20 years and Mazda has sold over a million of them.

Slow as hell in a stoplight race.

Not fast per se but each generation of the Miata got prgressively faster and the engine prograssively larger. Without comparing all the specifics (weight, accessories, cargo capacity), if you only look at that number on paper it must be enough to keep the average owner engaged.

[Justin.b]

The Miata's horsepower has increased through the years, but so has its weight. The talk about the next miata has been focused on a lighter car with a smaller/less powerful engine more like the original NA Miata.

-Justin

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

I see no turbo in this car's future. They don't have the room to move the price to cover it, and they don't have the margin on this vehicle to eat the costs on their own end.

Impreza to WRX is an $8,000 premium, so it's likely that we'd be looking at a similar increase. That would land a turbo FR-S right at or above the starting price of a 370z which will have at least 50 and possibly 100 more ponies under the hood. Yes, the z will probably be about 300 pounds heavier. It may also have 100 more hp. If you're looking for stoplight battles, you'd likely take the slightly higher weight for the significant hp gain.

If hp is a problem for Toyota and Subaru in selling this car, they have hidden it well.

-Justin

And yet the BRZ's handling would still blow the 370Z out of the water. Are you really saying there's only enough room in the $30k sports car market for ONE car? Nevermind how much more space the BRZ has inside over a 370Z...

Even ignoring that, you can't compare the BRZ to the WRX in that regard. The WRX is a PERFORMANCE version of a very plebeian economy car. The BRZ already is a PERFORMANCE car. Not as much would need to be tweaked/adjusted (that would heap on added cost). $5,000 is a realistic and reasonable amount to expect for any version with 50-100 extra horsepower (assuming they don't pull that luxury car crap and heap on every option/accessory under the sun as standard).

[Justin.b]

There's not much that needs to be changed on the Impreza to make a WRX that wouldn't need to be changed on the BRZ to make a turbo version.

I'm not saying there's room for only one. I'm saying that the people who won't buy the BRZ because they need more horsepower are still not going to be interested in it at 250hp when there's a 330hp competitor at the same price. Hell, the Mustang GT starts at $31k with 420hp.

If you're a horsepower / drag race nut, the fr-s still isn't going to show up on your shopping list with a 50hp boost.

If handling is your main consideration and you prefer the nimble feel of a lighter car, then the FR-S is the choice regardless of its hp.

I'm saying that there's no guarantee of increased sales with increased horsepower at a higher price. The only people who would buy a turbo fr-s/brz were going to buy the non-turbo car anyway since it's really the only choice for a cheap, light rwd coupe.

-Justin

[WolfpackS2k]

I kind of see where you're coming from, but the WRX doesn't even share any sheet metal with the Impreza (I'm referring to the last gen since it obviously shares nothing with the new one). That's kind of a big difference. No turbo BRZ would need different sheetmetal from the regular BRZ.

Handling is mostly my main consideration. But why am I being deprived horsepower? Why is the only way to satisfy both wants to buy a Porsche? Explain that one to me.

Granted, I admit that I bought a BRZ in spite of it's woeful engine, but that quality is driving me crazy faster than I thought it would. If no more powerful model is offered I'll have to start doing a cost/benefit comparison of a used Cayman S against an aftermarket boosted BRZ.

[DylanFRS]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

If hp is a problem for Toyota and Subaru in selling this car, they have hidden it well.

-Justin

All you guys waiting on the big turbo announcement, go back and read this because Justin hit the nail on the head.

Subaru/Toyota doesn't care about your internet bitching about how you think you are entitled to more power, they care about selling cars.

[Justin.b]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

I kind of see where you're coming from, but the WRX doesn't even share any sheet metal with the Impreza (I'm referring to the last gen since it obviously shares nothing with the new one). That's kind of a big difference. No turbo BRZ would need different sheetmetal from the regular BRZ.

Handling is mostly my main consideration. But why am I being deprived horsepower? Why is the only way to satisfy both wants to buy a Porsche? Explain that one to me.

Granted, I admit that I bought a BRZ in spite of it's woeful engine, but that quality is driving me crazy faster than I thought it would. If no more powerful model is offered I'll have to start doing a cost/benefit comparison of a used Cayman S against an aftermarket boosted BRZ.

Honestly, you're losing horsepower for price point. At Cayman prices, I'm sure Subayota could easily give us a 300hp version.

I personally like the lower hp because I think it keeps me out of trouble. I very much wish this engine were snappy and responsive like a good inline 4, though.

It's just another way the twins remind me of the 240sx. Great chassis.... not so great engine. I'd rather have it that way because the aftermarket can take care of low horsepower, but couldn't really make a bad chassis good or a heavy car light.

If it came down to them making this car with its present engine at $25k, or adding weight and features to it to justify a higher price with a better engine, I'd rather have it the way they made it.

Edit: Oh, and I didn't know that much about the differences from the wrx to the Impreza. It also looks like a $4k difference from the mini to mini S, and about $4k from the chevy sonic to the turbo version. If they could get 250hp and stay below $30k they could severly rape the tuners that have scrambled to put turbo kits together.

-Justin

[Whitigir]

I am sure Supply will meet demand. I see no other car that comparable to an FRS turbo-ed

[86'd]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

Edit: Oh, and I didn't know that much about the differences from the wrx to the Impreza. It also looks like a $4k difference from the mini to mini S, and about $4k from the chevy sonic to the turbo version. If they could get 250hp and stay below $30k they could severly rape the tuners that have scrambled to put turbo kits together.

-Justin

But they won't cannibalize sales of the BRZ. If a turbo version comes out, it will only be on the BRZ, and it most likely will be on the BRZ limited trim.

Making a turbo version (+50-75hp) around $4-5k on top of the limited's price. Which would put the car around 34k-36k. STI version, would a bit more.

I'd love to be wrong.

[RRnold]

The only changes I see won't be until the 3rd or 4th year and the changes will be minor; headlight/tail light, interior, different type of rims, different paint options etc.

[Justin.b]

I'm thinking that $35k is too much for a turbo BRZ/FR-S.

Why? Not sure. But even though I know the RX-8 had a great chassis, handled great and was light I could never bring myself to buy one even though my wife gave the green light. I just couldn't bring myself to pay that price for that car. (Looks Like Mazda sold 1134 if them in 2010 and 759 in 2011).

-Justin

[kajun]

Originally Posted by Justin.b

I'm thinking that $35k is too much for a turbo BRZ/FR-S.

Why? Not sure. But even though I know the RX-8 had a great chassis, handled great and was light I could never bring myself to buy one even though my wife gave the green light. I just couldn't bring myself to pay that price for that car. (Looks Like Mazda sold 1134 if them in 2010 and 759 in 2011).

This is very relative - in Australia for instance the BRZ sells for a base price of $37k. The spec matches the BRZ Limited in the US, so I guess we get the mod cons, but they're still able to sell these things with a 4 month wait time.

The 86 GTS MT sells for $39k, and they've got a 6 month wait on those. The AT GTS sells for $42k and there's a 8 month wait. (note: prices are inclusive of sales taxes & registration/insurance costs.)

Now I'm sure Australia doesn't have the largest stock allocation by a long shot, but we're selling close to half as many as the US per month, while our population is 1/15th of the US. On the other hand, the 370Z here starts from around $60k, as did the RX8, and a MX5 (Miata) is from $45k, so the fact is that the lower end of the market is all to themselves for now.

The twins sell well outside the States for a higher price - and you can have no doubt that a factory fitted and warranty'd turbo option would be worth a $10k price jump to many. There's scope aplenty for going higher in price in the same package.

For what it's worth though, I'm tipping they'll go for the convertible option first over performance enhancements, because that takes the fight right to the MX5/Miata and other roadsters.

[tomato88]

I'm hoping KERS to enter the scene. Based on what is showcased in F1, it can be relatively light and shaped however to fit in a vehicle. I'm sure it won't be even near extra 80hp for 7 seconds, but even for about extra 20hp for 3 seconds it should be good enough to push FT86 harder to 60mph.