Long Term FR-S

[regal]

When I buy a car new I intend to maintain and keep it forever, this car is very special there really won't be any 2700lb RW coupes with a 6 speed manual and torsen LSD made ever again for $400/mo payment. A lot of things went just right for a car like this to become a reality (stars aligned, luck, fate.). I work in the industry (even worked briefly at the Subaru plant in IN over 20 years ago when they were making Honda's alongside Suzuki's and Subarus.)

Things happen by large socio-political moves in this industry, not necessarily business needs or sense. I remember working at he Shreveport GM S10 Truck assembly plant in the 90s the size of a small city, thinking the plant would be there forever, now its is shut down and neither GM, Doge, Ford make a small pickup.

Luckly now I work at Americas last true road vehicle manufacturer (hint 2-wheels

I seriously doubt that Toyota would continue making such a low volume vehicle should the Subaru venture sour or the Scion brand fails. I could easily imagine the Japanese Subaru plant being needed for a hotter selling model. Moving to a new assembly plant rarely happens and usually means the EOL.

But I guess the first years sales are promising. The spec's of this car on paper are almost identical to the S14 Sylvia which didn't last long.

The biggest thing going for it is the new Chassis, the capital invested is sizeable for a ground up platform, both R&D and tooling. I hope the car is a continued success, I really think the rwd coupe vs convertible roadster (Miata/S2k) may keep it alive if people see the engineering that went into this car vs a Mustage or Genesis.

I just don't want to be stuck with a rare RX-7 type Japanese car that Subaru and Toyota forget about.

Probably my local dealer has just rubbed me the wrong way, listing my warranty claim as a Supra and not knowledgeable enough to get/swap the ECU. I'm ordering the EcuTek to do the flash myself, I hate fighting with a dealer who has no understanding of the greatness this car has.

To be honest there isn't much real aftermarket support for this engine outside bolt on FI, real NA performance would be a 9k redline cam/valvetrain, its amazing all these headers and CAI's without any headwork, pretty silly.


I will be first in line to get the Innovative twin screw SC, worrying aboug the warranty seems not worth the hassle anyway.

Love driving this thing, thanks for the encouragement.

[BillG]

I want to put speaker pads on my door panel. Is the speaker grill separate from the factory plastic pad? Or do I have to buy a grill separate for padded doorpad? (Scion FRS)

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by Apoc

My take on this is that Scion as a brand is not doing well in North America. This may affect the future of the FR-S, which is under the Scion brand. If Scion goes away I would speculate Toyota will simply release GT86 in NA instead. They wouldn't be so stupid as throw the FR-S away just yet considering the market demand.

We can only hope, they did decide to sell the GT86 as a Scion in the first place, after all. They could make the mistake and throw out the car for NA and keep selling it in other markets with us getting nothing further. Which would suck, immensely.

Originally Posted by torqdork

Scion and particularly the FR-S platform look to have a bright future. As DarkSunrise showed, sales are above plan. This is no boutique MR2 Spyder. It's already known that the series will be expanded to include a cabriolet with rumors of a sedan and station wagon circulating.

It's also in Toyota's political interest to support Subaru and US production. Before Toyota's cash, facilities and engineering injection, Subaru was having substantial problems and was even losing dealer representation in important markets. Toyota, already in political cross-hairs, didn't want the rep of steamrolling competitors out of existence so the deal became a win-win. Factor Subaru Indiana production remaining open and expanding, and Toyota strengthens it's US presence even more.

Scion is here to stay. It was created to capture Millenials into the Scion/Toyota/Lexus product cycle who might otherwise have gone elsewhere. It's working to plan and the FR-S is a big reason why.

Scion's outlook has been dim for a long while. Those expanded versions of the FR-S are "ideas" meaning they may not come to light. The convertible may not even be sold in our market. There was a post quoting Scion saying it doesn't fit because of their mono-spec setup and the price might rise above Scion's usual range, which the FR-S is already stretching.

The thing about Scion is it hasn't been doing well at capturing it's target audience. Their sales have been dwindling or holding, not improving. The FR-S is doing well but it was intended for Toyota(and Subaru). That aside, there are not many cars of that type on the market right now. So right now all those fans are flocking to the only option, if Nissan brought out a Silva, Chevy goes ahead with it's Code 130 R, Mazda brings back the RX-#, etc., then those fans will go back to their respective brands, especially if they're a better offering. Leaving Scion with what it originally had, dwindling sales. The Toyota fans, such as myself, are either giving in like the other brand fans or not buying and waiting for a Toyota offering. The FR-S may be a crutch, holding up Scion, but how long will it last? The rest of Scion's line up isn't holding itself, that's why the FR-S was given to Scion. It's a sinking ship, the FR-S is the bucket trying to bail the water out but they're taking on too much water for it to help.

Originally Posted by gily25

Can we get numbers on tC sales before/after the launch?

eh I think that if the Scion brand drops off that the car will be badged as a Toyota and continue pushing on. I can't see them closing a new assembly production that they just opened/started but I can see them keeping it open and rebadging. I think Toyota has too much invested in this project to just toss it out, even if they inevitably toss out the Scion brand. Subaru has a good record of producing parts long-term, I've never heard anyone complain about getting parts for an XT.

They wouldn't be closing production, all the cars are made at the same plant, for all markets, they'd simply reallocate the Scion production numbers to other markets. They could very well stop production for NA all together. I'd hope they'd swap it over to Toyota but who knows.

Originally Posted by SilentAngel

From what I've heard, the FR-S was supposed to "save" scion. So far it has, I also heard that Toyota will probably Upscale scion and make most of there models into some sort of FR-S line up. I don't have the articles anymore, but this is what i have heard. Makes sense as they are supposedly making a 150HP car and a new high end car with BMW also. I also heard that the FR-S is the basically going to be the mid model car, that there is supposed to be at least 1 car below it and 1 car above it, however this was before i even heard about the convertible and the upscaling of scion.

How has it saved Scion? It's holding it up a little bit longer but it doesn't seem to be boosting sales of other Scion vehicles. One car, that wasn't intended to be a Scion, can't save the brand. It has to generate interest in the rest of the line up, but I haven't seen anything saying it has.

The upscaling is an idea they have, not something they've committed to. They already admitted it'd take Scion away from what it's supposed to be. They also said Scion might not get the convertible because of Scion's mono-spec and the price might go higher than the FR-S' already stretched, for Scion, price tag.

[tmcmullins]

Originally Posted by SilentAngel

From what I've heard, the FR-S was supposed to "save" scion. So far it has, I also heard that Toyota will probably Upscale scion and make most of there models into some sort of FR-S line up. I don't have the articles anymore, but this is what i have heard. Makes sense as they are supposedly making a 150HP car and a new high end car with BMW also. I also heard that the FR-S is the basically going to be the mid model car, that there is supposed to be at least 1 car below it and 1 car above it, however this was before i even heard about the convertible and the upscaling of scion.

I'm thinking along the same lines. Here's the article I've read.

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/toyota-mu...-luxury-brand/

Originally Posted by tmcmullins

I'm thinking along the same lines. Here's the article I've read.

http://www.4wheelsnews.com/toyota-mu...-luxury-brand/

Makes sense, I just don't see toyota letting scion go anywhere because they do actually get competition with other cars. thx for the article.

How has it saved Scion? It's holding it up a little bit longer but it doesn't seem to be boosting sales of other Scion vehicles. One car, that wasn't intended to be a Scion, can't save the brand. It has to generate interest in the rest of the line up, but I haven't seen anything saying it has.

The upscaling is an idea they have, not something they've committed to. They already admitted it'd take Scion away from what it's supposed to be. They also said Scion might not get the convertible because of Scion's mono-spec and the price might go higher than the FR-S' already stretched, for Scion, price tag.[/QUOTE]

It has helped, guess i used the wrong word. I really can't see Toyota just dropping scion and letting the brand disappear. The only cars scion really sells is the FR-S and the TC, the other cars don't sell hardly at all because no one really likes them, and they aren't that great compared to other cars in there class. I think they just need a new lineup and they may actually do a lot better. We'll c what happens lol .

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by SilentAngel

It has helped, guess i used the wrong word. I really can't see Toyota just dropping scion and letting the brand disappear. The only cars scion really sells is the FR-S and the TC, the other cars don't sell hardly at all because no one really likes them, and they aren't that great compared to other cars in there class. I think they just need a new lineup and they may actually do a lot better. We'll c what happens lol .

That's what a lot of people thought about Pontiac and I'm sure Saturn too. Look what GM has done to them, Saturn is gone and Pontiac is shut down until they think they can bring it back, if at all. Scion is looking to go the same way. I'm pretty sure Pontiac did better than Scion has too.

[ihaskrayon]

I think Scion needs to lower prices instead of upping them. Sure the FR-S is worth the money, but all the other cars need to be priced lower. Their brand image is to cater to young high school and college kids looking to buy a "cheap" new car. When Scion first came out, I remember everyone had a tC, xB and some even got the xA.

I think they should move the FR-S and the tC over to Toyota so they can make more of a profit off them and bring in lower priced cars to keep sales going. But what do I know? I'm not CEO

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

The thing about Scion is it hasn't been doing well at capturing it's target audience. Their sales have been dwindling or holding, not improving.

According to March 2013 YTD reports, total Scion retail sales of 16,377 represents a 9.4% improvement over 2012, more of an increase than total Toyota car gain of 4.3% over the same time.

4,640 of those Scion retail sales were FR-S.

It's true that the other Scion series sales velocity is far off 2012 rates, especially iQ that was down 59.5% and tC off 19.9%, partly due to buildout and low inventory of the last gen tC in March.

Scion is a relatively small % of total Toyota car division sales, but it's an important part not only for image but CAFE. Most Scion ratings help boost total car averages to offset the thirsty Avalons that outsell all Scions combined.

The FR-S launch and tC redesign is just the beginning. Given Toyota's rapid series refresh rate (excepting Corolla that will be all new later this year), I imagine all Scions will be completely new or substantially refreshed within the next two years.

Then we have the politics of the Japanese workforce to consider. They need something to build, and it's Toyota's social responsibility to the homeland to do their part.

[Liquidsnake]

Originally Posted by CaptainSlow

That's why you lease for 3 years, 36,000 miles and let it be someone else's problem later on. One thing this car has going for it is a large and fast-growing aftermarket, which means that even if something breaks and OE parts are ridiculous, there should be a decent aftermarket solution available to you.

High Five man!

I love my car to bits, this has been such an awesome year. I still get excited to get in it to go home.

With that said, I am happy I leased it for 3.

I get to get a new car in 24 months.

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by torqdork

According to March 2013 YTD reports, total Scion retail sales of 16,377 represents a 9.4% improvement over 2012, more of an increase than total Toyota car gain of 4.3% over the same time.

4,640 of those Scion retail sales were FR-S.

It's true that the other Scion series sales velocity is far off 2012 rates, especially iQ that was down 59.5% and tC off 19.9%, partly due to buildout and low inventory of the last gen tC in March.

Scion is a relatively small % of total Toyota car division sales, but it's an important part not only for image but CAFE. Most Scion ratings help boost total car averages to offset the thirsty Avalons that outsell all Scions combined.

The FR-S launch and tC redesign is just the beginning. Given Toyota's rapid series refresh rate (excepting Corolla that will be all new later this year), I imagine all Scions will be completely new or substantially refreshed within the next two years.

Then we have the politics of the Japanese workforce to consider. They need something to build, and it's Toyota's social responsibility to the homeland to do their part.

That's just it though, they've done a refresh of the tc once before and it hasn't helped. They'll do it again and have a little bump in sales, maybe, of repeat tc people, if they haven't gone to the FR-S or something else. Their refresh rate isn't something I'd call "rapid" either. I'd say average at best. What Chevy did with the all new 2013 Malibu, refreshed it for 2014 due to the negative response of the 2013, that was rapid.

As for the politics of the Japanese workforce, they'll still be building for other markets. They need only reallocate production to another market. There is also the suspected folding of Scion back into Toyota, again, problem solved. Cut the dead weight, keep what is working alive with a different badge, add trim levels to make up for lost production of cut models, continue on.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Saber_TRD

We can only hope, they did decide to sell the GT86 as a Scion in the first place, after all. They could make the mistake and throw out the car for NA and keep selling it in other markets with us getting nothing further. Which would suck, immensely.

Great post but I don't think they'll screw over the NA market just because of a badge and some foolish attempt at a commitment/consistency.

If Scion folded next week my money says you'd be able to buy a GT86 before summer was out, with the same specs as the FRS and with a $3k market adjustment of course. All their models would be absorbed and sold as the Toyotas they're sold as elsewhere.



We only get the "short" end of the stick when the laws are different than other countries; i.e. diesels and small pickup trucks.

[Saber_TRD]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Great post but I don't think they'll screw over the NA market just because of a badge and some foolish attempt at a commitment/consistency.

If Scion folded next week my money says you'd be able to buy a GT86 before summer was out, with the same specs as the FRS and with a $3k market adjustment of course. All their models would be absorbed and sold as the Toyotas they're sold as elsewhere.



We only get the "short" end of the stick when the laws are different than other countries; i.e. diesels and small pickup trucks.

AE86 Black Limited, Sera, Celica GT-4, Modelista Celica, MR-S (2006-2007), Celica (2006), Supra (1999-2002), 86 GT Limited, I'm sure I could find more and if I started on other brands.... whoa boy would that list grow fast.

[bcj]

There's always the granny market. I know a little old 92 year old lady who used to buy Civics religiously.
Got to the point where she couldn't get in and out of it anymore.
She did some shopping and settled on the xB. She's happy as a clam with it now.
Her recommendation was one of the reasons I even considered a Scion. Glad I found it.