May 2010 Car&Driver issue FT-86 article - "25 Cars Worth Waiting For" - Page 5 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

no_name · 04-09-2010, 11:39 AM

Toyota wants this thing to be fuel efficient, and 200+ bhp doesn't fit that mark. The current D-4S engines are getting about 70-90hp per liter, and I'm pretty sure that to hit their MPG targets, the FT86 is at the lower end of that scale.

Matador · 04-09-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_name

Toyota wants this thing to be fuel efficient, and 200+ bhp doesn't fit that mark. The current D-4S engines are getting about 70-90hp per liter, and I'm pretty sure that to hit their MPG targets, the FT86 is at the lower end of that scale.

Re: Fuel efficiency and how light weight makes it happen.

fernan2 · 04-09-2010, 03:11 PM

hahahhaha u r all funny, 180hp is the max this little car is going to have

Dark · 04-09-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernan2

hahahhaha u r all funny, 180hp is the max this little car is going to have

I believe when I see it.

NESW20 · 04-09-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernan2

hahahhaha u r all funny, 180hp is the max this little car is going to have

leave. :happy0180: seriously, i think toyota could easily put a 200hp 2.0L engine in there. the celica 1.8L 2ZZ had 180hp. with 10 years of engine development, DI, etc... i'm sure they can make more power than that out of a 2.0L.

-Mike

chulooz · 04-09-2010, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NESW20

leave. :happy0180: seriously, i think toyota could easily put a 200hp 2.0L engine in there. the celica 1.8L 2ZZ had 180hp. with 10 years of engine development, DI, etc... i'm sure they can make more power than that out of a 2.0L.

-Mike

Agreed... I think he is the funny one.

ichitaka05 · 04-09-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NESW20

leave. :happy0180: seriously, i think toyota could easily put a 200hp 2.0L engine in there. the celica 1.8L 2ZZ had 180hp. with 10 years of engine development, DI, etc... i'm sure they can make more power than that out of a 2.0L.

-Mike

Hm... I'm thinking between. This is Toy's first boxer engine since.... (God knows how long ago) I'm thinkin' more like 190~197hp w 155~172tq. If it had 200hp, I'll be more than happy.

NESW20 · 04-09-2010, 10:21 PM

i think your numbers are perfectly reasonable. one thing i'd like to stress again is that cylinder layout has little to do with power production. it's all about airflow management in the cylinder head(s), intake, and exhaust.

-Mike

no_name · 04-15-2010, 01:46 PM

I'm with Fernan2. 200hp would be nice and all, but 160-180 is way more likely. The Miata is the closest modern benchmark (with predicted hp and weight), and it has 167hp and weighs about 2400lb. If the FT clocks in at 2600lb, it only needs 181hp to keep pace with a Miata, 195 if it weighs 2800lb (highly unlikely). Keep in mind that the original AE86 had 112hp.

Plus Toyota wants this car to be "green" (Tada has said this plenty of times) so they probably have specific MPGs in mind an will sacrifice HP to meet those goals.

My personal guess is 165hp.

Dark · 04-15-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_name

I'm with Fernan2. 200hp would be nice and all, but 160-180 is way more likely. The Miata is the closest modern benchmark (with predicted hp and weight), and it has 167hp and weighs about 2400lb. If the FT clocks in at 2600lb, it only needs 181hp to keep pace with a Miata, 195 if it weighs 2800lb (highly unlikely). Keep in mind that the original AE86 had 112hp.

Plus Toyota wants this car to be "green" (Tada has said this plenty of times) so they probably have specific MPGs in mind an will sacrifice HP to meet those goals.

My personal guess is 165hp.

AE86 is a car from 1985, It's 2010. Toyota was the #1 investing in R&D in 2008, so I will call it a waste if they can't make it close to 200hp.
Green and performance can be applied together. Clean diesel Audi and VW are green and have great performance.

Matador · 04-15-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_name

I'm with Fernan2. 200hp would be nice and all, but 160-180 is way more likely. The Miata is the closest modern benchmark (with predicted hp and weight), and it has 167hp and weighs about 2400lb. If the FT clocks in at 2600lb, it only needs 181hp to keep pace with a Miata, 195 if it weighs 2800lb (highly unlikely). Keep in mind that the original AE86 had 112hp.

Plus Toyota wants this car to be "green" (Tada has said this plenty of times) so they probably have specific MPGs in mind an will sacrifice HP to meet those goals.

My personal guess is 165hp.

Why would you want it to just keep pace with a miata?

Gay.

Light weight is the solution to being green, efficient and performing. Lotus proves that with the new Elise S.

47mpg thank you very much, low CO2 (149g/km) and 0-60 in 6.5 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark

AE86 is a car from 1985, It's 2010. Toyota was the #1 investing in R&D in 2008, so I will call it a waste if they can't make it close to 200hp.
Green and performance can be applied together. Clean diesel Audi and VW are green and have great performance.

Totally agree, but diesel is another thing.

p.s. I don't consider high mileage "green". It's just efficient.

CyberFormula · 04-15-2010, 04:28 PM

I agree ^

lotus elise 1.8 liter N/a ...190hp??

Siriusly.Andrew · 04-15-2010, 04:36 PM

They no longer use the 2ZZ-GE 1.8L

" the base Elise now gets a new smaller 1.6-liter inline-four to replace the current 1.8. The Toyota-sourced engine has dual variable valve timing and maintains the same 134 horsepower output as before while cutting CO2 emissions by 13 percent to 155 g/km and improving mileage to a combined 38.3 miles per gallon (U.S.) on the EU test cycle."

But more to the points ::

"The base Elise weighs just 1,931 pounds, allowing it accelerate to 60 miles per hour in six seconds with that modest powerplant"

134hp, 6 second 0-60 sprint = proof that lightweight means EVERYTHING.

Matador · 04-16-2010, 12:59 AM

Elise S = 1ZR
Elise = 2ZZ

04-09-2010, 10:21 PM	#64
NESW20 2.1L 3SGTE Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: MR2 Turbo & Tacoma Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,248 Thanks: 29 Thanked 24 Times in 22 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	i think your numbers are perfectly reasonable. one thing i'd like to stress again is that cylinder layout has little to do with power production. it's all about airflow management in the cylinder head(s), intake, and exhaust. -Mike __________________ 1991 MR2 Turbo - 2.1L high compression stroker 3SGTE 2006 Tacoma 4x4 TRD Off Road - All-Pro front bumper, Old Man Emu shocks, Old Man Emu HD front coils, All-Pro leafs 1990 240SX Coupe - sold 2008 Civic Si Sedan

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04-09-2010, 11:39 AM	#57
no_name Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: 2005 Hyundai Accent Location: Ottawa Ontario Posts: 306 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Toyota wants this thing to be fuel efficient, and 200+ bhp doesn't fit that mark. The current D-4S engines are getting about 70-90hp per liter, and I'm pretty sure that to hit their MPG targets, the FT86 is at the lower end of that scale.

04-09-2010, 03:11 PM	#59
fernan2 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Drives: Wrx Location: puerto rico Posts: 374 Thanks: 49 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	hahahhaha u r all funny, 180hp is the max this little car is going to have

04-15-2010, 01:46 PM	#65
no_name Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Drives: 2005 Hyundai Accent Location: Ottawa Ontario Posts: 306 Thanks: 27 Thanked 15 Times in 7 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I'm with Fernan2. 200hp would be nice and all, but 160-180 is way more likely. The Miata is the closest modern benchmark (with predicted hp and weight), and it has 167hp and weighs about 2400lb. If the FT clocks in at 2600lb, it only needs 181hp to keep pace with a Miata, 195 if it weighs 2800lb (highly unlikely). Keep in mind that the original AE86 had 112hp. Plus Toyota wants this car to be "green" (Tada has said this plenty of times) so they probably have specific MPGs in mind an will sacrifice HP to meet those goals. My personal guess is 165hp.

04-15-2010, 04:28 PM	#68
CyberFormula Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Drives: gti, nsx, integra type r,porsche911 Location: garage Posts: 536 Thanks: 1 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	I agree ^ lotus elise 1.8 liter N/a ...190hp??

04-16-2010, 12:59 AM	#70
Matador hashiryu Join Date: Nov 2009 Drives: Mk4 Supra Location: Probably mucking around in an engine bay Posts: 2,567 Thanks: 18 Thanked 37 Times in 20 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Elise S = 1ZR Elise = 2ZZ

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