S2000 vs. FR-S BRZ Track Review Video | Part 2 of 2

[thill]

Originally Posted by drewbot

Finding an unmolested S2000 is also impossible

Sent from my OnePlus One

I have found three. Each time the seller wanted $23-25K firm and would not back down on the price. One of them has been for sale for like 8 months and the seller just won't drop the price (car is immaculate, completely stock, and has under 23K miles on it). I think the seller is not in a hurry and he is waiting for the right buyer to come along.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Not if your a n00b.

If you hop in and expect to match other experienced drivers with expensive or modified cars after a day on the track because you did in your last car, then yes, you require all of those things before you go, but if it's your first time at the track you will need a couple days to get the hang of it, you can distribute those costs as you get better and run into the roadblocks and learn and do the jobs yourself.

Still a great beginner track car stock, especially for someone who's last goal is to get a laptimer and analyze data the next day.

I dont think putting this car on track stock is wise. Oil temps on 0w20 go terminal in as little at 10 minutes oil pressure drops along with it. WHile tires are rock hard with no camber from factory they just roll over and die. And brakes fade in 3 laps tops. If you ignore all of that then yeah its ok for a noob, not all that safe though.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by jflogerzi

in stock form, you don't need an oil cooler to run at a track. Keep an eye on temps via torque and pull off when you reach a certain temp. For me 250 is where I stop.

Take a look at your oil pressures at 250F with 0w20. You may have second thoughts.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by Deep Six

To be fair, four of those are consumables and most track addicts are constantly making changes as they wear out.

Oh I agree its not a huge deal, but there is this marketed idea by most the 86 can just go right out on track and go flat out. It cant.

And since this is mentioned because the S2000 basically can with as little as pads and alignment its more geared for it out of the box. (As is miata)

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

Oh I agree its not a huge deal, but there is this marketed idea by most the 86 can just go right out on track and go flat out. It cant.

And since this is mentioned because the S2000 basically can with as little as pads and alignment its more geared for it out of the box. (As is miata)

So tracking a stock twin, oil temps, oil pressure and coolant temps get above what you consider safe.

How many people have had motor catastrophes by tracking hard? I take what you say as solid info to go by. What kind of damage has happened? Does the car just pull timing and go in a limpish mode, or is that "luxury" not happening before it's too late?

[PHLonomenal]

Originally Posted by abraxis

It also has 15 years of emissions, mileage and safety standards to comply with along with the increased material costs and declining currency values.

Most issues people have with the 86 platform can be blamed on these factors and yet I think Subaru and Toyota deserve great credit for putting out the platform they did under those circumstances. No small feat and few if any other manufacturers seem keen on the idea on making a direct competitor. Nissan is on again, off again with no clear direction, Kia killed theirs, Hyundai is abandoning the segment and pushing upscale (fatter), Ford went all in on the lead sled concept, Honda who knows (rumors of a mid-engined S2K replacement someday). Mazda is pushing ahead but the Miata isn't a direct competitor.

Just enjoy your car people or get something else if you don't.

Post of the year.


Sent from my StarTrek communicator using Tapatalk

[sickmint79]

are you fighting for a tight line in the last turn? it looked like turbowski drifted further out and i thought that was the better line to take. been to ab but am not fast there so don't put too much stock in my comments though.

what oil temp were you getting? why considered too hot? some of me at full abcc

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL5OeHDvIHc"]Subaru BRZ at Autobahn race track in joliet with mvp track time - YouTube[/ame]

temp up to 279. have since put in koyo radiator and the forester oem style cooler kit but not been back to a track yet. did gingerman after this vid (before the install of those goodies) and it hit 279, and i sent it in to blackstone.

here is the oil analysis -
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=128

speculating it will be 230/240s with the goodies in and... good enough? next time i get some data i'll post it. (may be abcc full 10/6?)

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dezoris

I dont think putting this car on track stock is wise. Oil temps on 0w20 go terminal in as little at 10 minutes oil pressure drops along with it. WHile tires are rock hard with no camber from factory they just roll over and die. And brakes fade in 3 laps tops. If you ignore all of that then yeah its ok for a noob, not all that safe though.

See you are assuming a n00b can go out and on lap 1 be on the ABS getting into every corner, redline through every gear and be in the right gear for corner exit never dropping out of the powerband, that is extremely unrealistic for a first timer.

Those are skills easy to take for granted, we're talking about guys showing up in Porsche's and Corvettes that struggle to run a 2 minute lap at Laguna Seca, (Pobst ran 1:51 in a stock BRZ) let alone complain about brake fade or even know the definition of camber.

[Pegasus]

I feel as if the FR-S was expected to be modified from the get go. Wheels and tires suck, brakes suck, engine is slow but Crawford Performance knows that it likes to make power ( The S2000 is known for being reluctant to make more power).

I plan on fixing all these things on my FR-S. Power, brakes, wheels, & tires. I have no desire for suspension changes, camber is to hardcore for me. Just cooling in the only concern, but oil cooler, radiatior & maybe an oil/radiatior heat exchanger will help with the Texan heat. I am happy with my car, unfortunately I wouldn't fit in a S2K at 6"3 good thing I'm satisfied then haha.

[civdaddy]

Originally Posted by Pegasus

I feel as if the FR-S was expected to be modified from the get go. Wheels and tires suck, brakes suck, engine is slow but Crawford Performance knows that it likes to make power ( The S2000 is known for being reluctant to make more power).

I plan on fixing all these things on my FR-S. Power, brakes, wheels, & tires. I have no desire for suspension changes, camber is to hardcore for me. Just cooling in the only concern, but oil cooler, radiatior & maybe an oil/radiatior heat exchanger will help with the Texan heat. I am happy with my car, unfortunately I wouldn't fit in a S2K at 6"3 good thing I'm satisfied then haha.

S2ks and turbos LOVE to make power. Now, more NA power is quite costly and not easily attainable. But turbo s2ks

[w.k.s.]

I love that you feel the same way in that the 2005 s2000 was the apex of that car.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by abraxis

It also has 15 years of emissions, mileage and safety standards to comply with along with the increased material costs and declining currency values.

Most issues people have with the 86 platform can be blamed on these factors and yet I think Subaru and Toyota deserve great credit for putting out the platform they did under those circumstances. No small feat and few if any other manufacturers seem keen on the idea on making a direct competitor. Nissan is on again, off again with no clear direction, Kia killed theirs, Hyundai is abandoning the segment and pushing upscale (fatter), Ford went all in on the lead sled concept, Honda who knows (rumors of a mid-engined S2K replacement someday). Mazda is pushing ahead but the Miata isn't a direct competitor.

Just enjoy your car people or get something else if you don't.

Well said...all true

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by sickmint79

are you fighting for a tight line in the last turn? it looked like turbowski drifted further out and i thought that was the better line to take. been to ab but am not fast there so don't put too much stock in my comments though.

what oil temp were you getting? why considered too hot? some of me at full abcc

temp up to 279. have since put in koyo radiator and the forester oem style cooler kit but not been back to a track yet. did gingerman after this vid (before the install of those goodies) and it hit 279, and i sent it in to blackstone.

here is the oil analysis -
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=128

speculating it will be 230/240s with the goodies in and... good enough? next time i get some data i'll post it. (may be abcc full 10/6?)

Its hard to critique but at 18:17 you washed out to far which hurts your setup for next corner. The following turn you just need to brake deeper and turn in later.

We ran 0w20 switched to 10w30 then 10w40.
220F was the limit on 0w20 redline before we saw 45psi (oil pressure) at 7000RPM
250F was the limit on 10w30 on redline before we saw 45psi at 7000rpm
And 265F was limit of 10w40 on redline 45psi at 7000rpm.

Now I want to say first and foremost mechanically speaking the motor technically is supposed to have 80psi at 7000rpm per service manual. But in the real world as oil heats we typically only see 60psi.

But when you drop into the 40psi range its asking for trouble skimming bearings and such. Now I have ran 0w20 to 265F and had clean UOA. BUt the motor is fresh. I wont do that again its too risky namely if you do it under higher lateral load.

[Dezoris]

Originally Posted by civdaddy

So tracking a stock twin, oil temps, oil pressure and coolant temps get above what you consider safe.

How many people have had motor catastrophes by tracking hard? I take what you say as solid info to go by. What kind of damage has happened? Does the car just pull timing and go in a limpish mode, or is that "luxury" not happening before it's too late?

See the post above this about temps vs oil pressures.
Honestly if you track the car hard or have FI you need an oil temp and pressure gauge. We have not seen total failures yet but we dont have guys running motors with over 50k miles on track yet namely on 0w20.

Running in the 40psi oil pressure on the track at high RPM is a ticking time bomb. And hot oil running out of spec will get you that just have to watch it. Again I have done it several times on 0w20 at 265F with 40psi oil pressures at 7000RPM and had clean UOA. But the motor has less than 20k on it. Ask any subie shop they would not recommend it.