Trade in FRS to purchase Mustang EcoBoost or Camaro 2.0 Turbo

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I like both. Both are exciting in different ways and certainly not "everybody" should necessarily want them, but if you want a "Muscle car" it has to have muscle.

My 2.0 RS Skyline had more performance that the Corvette of the same year and I got at least one chance to test it in the real world, the vette went out easily, but it was not, is not and never will be a "muscle car."

Boosted four banger.



Big V8



Either gets the job done, but they are not the same thing.

No they are not the same thing. Your gifs make my point nicely though. They both get the job done but some people don't want or need a pro wrestler and would prefer the Kung fu artist. At the same time there is no reason to say that if you do want a pro wrestler that they be built the same as they always were. The next gen of pro could be smaller and lighter but just as effective as the massive version of the past.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Who said anything about forgetting?
The point being that turboed 4s can now double the hp of old school V8s and the Mustang and Camaro are both gradually changing from big heavy beasts that needed V8s to simply move to lighter more nimble machines that can get along perfectly on a turboed 4. Not everybody needs to get a massive 8 just because "muscle car".

Though is there really replacement for "displacement" and "cylinder count"? My WRX can easily make ~300whp/tq, making it faster than some pony cars out there. I think it would still feel like crap because of the turbo lag. People should stop go telling me modern turbo has little to no lag because that's horseshit.

[themadscientist]

I'm all for people having what they want.

Want Kung Fu, buy Kung Fu.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ttCavbTJO0"]"DREAMCRUSHER" JUN 9 second R32 GTR - YouTube[/ame]

Want Pro Wrestler, buy Pro Wrestler.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySM2H8MOvXY"]217MPH 1000+HP 2013 GT500 - Texas Mile - YouTube[/ame]

Bruce is a bad mofo, but he ain't Lesnar. Lesnar is a bad mofo, but he ain't Bruce. Either can demolish a man, but the way they go about is is different and while the pile of hamburger that used to be their respective opponents is the same, they way of the pummeling was different.

You can't call Kung Fu Pro Wrestling and you can't call Pro Wrestling Kung Fu. Similarly, a high strung small displacement engine is not a musclecar engine. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's just a fact. Sorry.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by themadscientist

I'm all for people having what they want.

Want Kung Fu, buy Kung Fu.

Want Pro Wrestler, buy Pro Wrestler.

Bruce is a bad mofo, but he ain't Lesnar. Lesnar is a bad mofo, but he ain't Bruce. Either can demolish a man, but the way they go about is is different and while the pile of hamburger that used to be their respective opponents is the same, they way of the pummeling was different.

You can't call Kung Fu Pro Wrestling and you can't call Pro Wrestling Kung Fu. Similarly, a high strung small displacement engine is not a musclecar engine. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's just a fact. Sorry.

Sorry fior what? I think we are in total agreement here. I come from a long line of muscle cars. And I mean real muscle cars not the quasi sports cars they call muscle now.
The pint I was trying to make seems to have got lost someplace along the line here. What I originally spoke out against was the statement that the cars involved HAD to have an 8 to be any good. This is just not true anymore. What we now have is a pro wrestler body with Kung fu skills. This can be more effective than either group on its own when pitted against one that is strictly one or the other. I guess they really are sort of the MMA of the car world now.

[themadscientist]

Oh good, we do seem to be tracking similar lines.

This isn't really a first, though. Going back to Mustangs, the Fox body 5.0s in my town back when they were legion feared some guy I heard whispered about who had a Fox body, but his said SVO.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQqF5QrcG8"]MotorWeek | Retro Review: '84 Ford Mustang S - YouTube[/ame]

Those old 2.3 turbo four bangers can still box too, apparently, better than the new breed in this case.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD8Cu9QmVkg"]1986 Mustang SVO Versus 2015 Ecoboost Mustang - YouTube[/ame]

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dark

Though is there really replacement for "displacement" and "cylinder count"? My WRX can easily make ~300whp/tq, making it faster than some pony cars out there. I think it would still feel like crap because of the turbo lag. People should stop go telling me modern turbo has little to no lag because that's horseshit.

Some? Try faster than >90% of all muscle cars.

Go look up how much horsepower a Mustang GT made in 2009, 1999, and 1989. Over the past five years we went from 300hp being 'big power' to 'v6 mom-mobile'

It's patently absurd how easy horsepower is these days.

Your WRX would pull hard on the Corvette of my youth, and make the Corvette of tcoats youth look like it was in park.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Some? Try faster than >90% of all muscle cars.

Go look up how much horsepower a Mustang GT made in 2009, 1999, and 1989. Over the past five years we went from 300hp being 'big power' to 'v6 mom-mobile'

It's patently absurd how easy horsepower is these days.

Your WRX would pull hard on the Corvette of my youth, and make the Corvette of tcoats youth look like it was in park.

I got WRX, but I get your point. Turbo 4 banger can be really fast. Though my point being, Turbo engines don't have "instant" feel of NA engine. It doesn't matter how good the turbo and calibration is.

[themadscientist]

I like lag. It's like foreplay to a wild romp when the gate cracks and the car takes off. Same reason I enjoy it when the 2 smoke bike comes on the pipe and turns into a rocket.

[Parappa]

Thanks for all the opinions, I went and test drove the ecoboost mustang this weekend. The car looks better in person.

I like the analogy pro wrestler with kung fu skills!....I think that is why I am considering the mustang.

After driving the mustang I wish I could own both and have the choice depending on my mood.


Thoughts after a 20 min test drive

Pros
Nice body styling
Higher quality interior, not a huge fan of the chrome toggle switches, odd looking start button
Car felt more solid
Nice passing power on the highway
Nice looking signature lighting front and rear
Different settings for weight of steering
Lots of options/gadgets


Cons
Car feels big - got used to it pretty quick
Body roll
Reliability? Low resale?


Hard to decide because the cars are so different

FRS feels more precise and exciting to drive, just wish the interior mainly the (hvac controls) were nicer.

Mustang feels plush, more solid, more power but a bit 'boaty' and softer ride



My wifes (not a car fan) initial thoughts was the mustang feels more comfortable, solid but does not feel like a sports car.

She felt the FRS felt like a sports car

[nickmerronesucks]

Originally Posted by Parappa

Thanks for all the opinions, I went and test drove the ecoboost mustang this weekend. The car looks better in person.

I like the analogy pro wrestler with kung fu skills!....I think that is why I am considering the mustang.

After driving the mustang I wish I could own both and have the choice depending on my mood.


Thoughts after a 20 min test drive

Pros
Nice body styling
Higher quality interior, not a huge fan of the chrome toggle switches, odd looking start button
Car felt more solid
Nice passing power on the highway
Nice looking signature lighting front and rear
Different settings for weight of steering
Lots of options/gadgets


Cons
Car feels big - got used to it pretty quick
Body roll
Reliability? Low resale?


Hard to decide because the cars are so different

FRS feels more precise and exciting to drive, just wish the interior mainly the (hvac controls) were nicer.

Mustang feels plush, more solid, more power but a bit 'boaty' and softer ride



My wifes (not a car fan) initial thoughts was the mustang feels more comfortable, solid but does not feel like a sports car.

She felt the FRS felt like a sports car

Sounds like you would like a BRZ.

[Dark]

Originally Posted by Parappa

Thanks for all the opinions, I went and test drove the ecoboost mustang this weekend. The car looks better in person.

I like the analogy pro wrestler with kung fu skills!....I think that is why I am considering the mustang.

After driving the mustang I wish I could own both and have the choice depending on my mood.


Thoughts after a 20 min test drive

Pros
Nice body styling
Higher quality interior, not a huge fan of the chrome toggle switches, odd looking start button
Car felt more solid
Nice passing power on the highway
Nice looking signature lighting front and rear
Different settings for weight of steering
Lots of options/gadgets


Cons
Car feels big - got used to it pretty quick
Body roll
Reliability? Low resale?


Hard to decide because the cars are so different

FRS feels more precise and exciting to drive, just wish the interior mainly the (hvac controls) were nicer.

Mustang feels plush, more solid, more power but a bit 'boaty' and softer ride



My wifes (not a car fan) initial thoughts was the mustang feels more comfortable, solid but does not feel like a sports car.

She felt the FRS felt like a sports car

If you don't care about rear seat, go test drive the new Miata. Tune alone can bump power to 25-30hp/tq.

[Parappa]

I do require the rear seat, my daughter 3.5 rides with me on the weekends. If I do decide to sell my FRS it will be for the mustang.