FRS/BRZ vs 2015 Golf GTI

[n0thing]

Just wanted to start a discussion.

RWD 200/151 hp/tq 2dr coupe NA vs
FWD 210/258 hp/tq 3dr hatch FI

[juliog]

Some facts..

Like BMW, Volkswagen underrates their horsepower figures. A stock GTI Mk7 makes ~210-220 WHP (look up the dynos). And it responds very well to tune and after-market bolt ons.

USDM 2-door with a stick now weights 2976 lbs (~150lbs than a equivalent Mk6). So not much heavier than a stock 86. The Fiesta ST is lighter but makes less power and does not offer an LSD (~$1500 buys you one on the GTI as part of the performance package). Focus ST is heavier, at 3200lbs, and again does not have a front limited slip diff. New Mazda 3 weights about the same as the GTI, without turbo.

Car won't let you disable ESP completely. Hopefully a software flash will do the trick, as it did for the Mk6 (although it took a while..).

The Golf R will let you disable all electronics aids (VW sells it as "feature" on that car). But it will be much more expensive ($35-37K), heavier (~3300 lbs) and only come in 5-door configuration in the US.


All in all, a great all around car that I would love to daily drive and take for long trips. Also, at this point I don't know why would anybody choose a Focus ST over this —the Fiesta ST I could understand, lower price point and lighter car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by juliog

Some facts..

Like BMW, Volkswagen underrates their horsepower figures. A stock GTI Mk7 makes ~210-220 WHP (look up the dynos). And it responds very well to tune and after-market bolt ons.

Yep. Most stock mk6 GTIs make about 190-200 whp on the dyno (rated 200 crank).

Originally Posted by juliog

All in all, a great all around car that I would love to daily drive and take for long trips. Also, at this point I don't know why would anybody choose a Focus ST over this —the Fiesta ST I could understand, lower price point and lighter car.

If I had to sell my FR-S and replace it with a FWD hot hatch, I'd take the Focus ST over the mk7 GTI. Pretty much everyone who's driven the Focus ST calls it a hooligan car that oversteers at will and offers unfiltered, raw feedback from the steering wheel, even giving you plenty of torque steer. That's how I'd want my hot hatch setup if it had to double as my fun car.

If I was buying a car to park alongside my FR-S, I'd go for the mk7 GTI, mainly for the refinement. It wouldn't need to double as my fun car, so I would sacrifice a bit of fun for more comfort and refinement.

Just my 2c as a current mk6 GTI owner.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

The long-term reliability of VWs is scary to me. I have thought about leasing a GTI to reap the benefits without the headaches later on down the road. But you figure for a little bit more a month, you could just finance an FR-S/BRZ and have something that will likely be quite reliable and still in good shape when it gets paid off.


The twins are the obvious sports cars, but the GTI is still a good looking hatch that drives VERY well. I'm curious about the Golf 1.8T, which has been getting pretty good reviews so far, and the base model starts out pretty cheap. Though of course that's not really what you'd want, but looking at the Golf 1.8T SE (which is kind of the package where it seems a lot more acceptable), it's already within a few hundred dollars of a base GTI that gets you 40 hp and 74 lb-ft more, among other things.

[BadMoon]

If you guys want I will do a full write up of my experience with VW. I recently traded in my BRZ limited for a 2014 GLI Autobahn/Nav. I've had it for 2 weeks. I was considering going to the WRX. Basically I loved the BRZ but it really wasn't working for my wife and I with 2 little ones. And to be completely honest my wife hated the car. So I got sick of hearing her bitch. When I get to the point financially I will have another one.

What does this have to do with a 2015 GTI? They are pretty damn similar. The new GTI obviously handles better and has a little more get up and go. But still similar.

[juliog]

I don't think the 2014 or 2015 Jetta uses Volkswagen's new MQB platform though.

[ThisIsChrisKim]

I like the way the GTI looks, but I've always thought VW asks a little too much for their cars when equipped similarly to other cars in the same class (generally, ~$3000 premium). I tend to like my cars to be optioned up, so that's something that has been somewhat of a deterrent. The perception of VW electrical issues also scares me. I've also never been a fan of the way the clutch feels on VW cars, as well.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

The long-term reliability of VWs is scary to me. I have thought about leasing a GTI to reap the benefits without the headaches later on down the road. But you figure for a little bit more a month, you could just finance an FR-S/BRZ and have something that will likely be quite reliable and still in good shape when it gets paid off.

Yeah not the most reliable engines. The mk5 GTIs (and mk6 Golf R's using similar FSI/EA113 engines) have cam follower wear issues. The mk6 GTIs (with TSI/EA888 engines) are better, but a lucky few have complete timing chain tensioner failures. All will have carbon buildup around the intake valves due to the DI system design, but at least that doesn't cause any real damage.

That said, VW's notorious electrical problems seem to be behind them. Those were a huge PITA and a bad chapter in VW history.

So far my mk6 GTI has been problem-free. I'm planning to keep it until the 5y/60k powertrain warranty runs, after which point I'll have to decide whether to roll the dice or not. My wife loves the car and wants to keep it until the wheels fall off, so we may end up going the distance with it.

Originally Posted by ThisIsChrisKim

I like the way the GTI looks, but I've always thought VW asks a little too much for their cars when equipped similarly to other cars in the same class (generally, ~$3000 premium). I tend to like my cars to be optioned up, so that's something that has been somewhat of a deterrent. The perception of VW electrical issues also scares me. I've also never been a fan of the way the clutch feels on VW cars, as well.

I actually think the GTI has good/decent value for the money if you're a features/tech guy. For the $3k premium, you get more refinement than other cars in its class -- comparable to entry level Audis actually, and a pretty good feature set (steering-adjustable bixenons, full BT integration, mini display between the tach and speedo, optional dual-clutch, steering wheel controls, good navi, optional keyless entry/start, optional leather, etc.) To me, the GTI feels and drives more expensive than it is, which can be a good or bad thing, depending whether you want refinement or not.

[mact]

I have a MK6 GTI 4dr with APR tune and 3" downpipe. It hauls. 24k miles so far and 0 problems.

[superleggera]

Originally Posted by juliog

Some facts..

Like BMW, Volkswagen underrates their horsepower figures. A stock GTI Mk7 makes ~210-220 WHP (look up the dynos). And it responds very well to tune and after-market bolt ons.

USDM 2-door with a stick now weights 2976 lbs (~150lbs than a equivalent Mk6). So not much heavier than a stock 86. The Fiesta ST is lighter but makes less power and does not offer an LSD (~$1500 buys you one on the GTI as part of the performance package). Focus ST is heavier, at 3200lbs, and again does not have a front limited slip diff. New Mazda 3 weights about the same as the GTI, without turbo.

Car won't let you disable ESP completely. Hopefully a software flash will do the trick, as it did for the Mk6 (although it took a while..).

The Golf R will let you disable all electronics aids (VW sells it as "feature" on that car). But it will be much more expensive ($35-37K), heavier (~3300 lbs) and only come in 5-door configuration in the US.


All in all, a great all around car that I would love to daily drive and take for long trips. Also, at this point I don't know why would anybody choose a Focus ST over this —the Fiesta ST I could understand, lower price point and lighter car.

Are you referring to the mk6 R, or the mk7 R? I had a mk6 R and you had to do the software flash to truly disable ESP. Also the mk7 R won't be for sale here for a while.

[juliog]

I was referring to the Mk7 models.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by n0thing

Just wanted to start a discussion.

RWD 200/151 hp/tq 2dr coupe NA vs
FWD 210/258 hp/tq 3dr hatch FI

Yay, stats on paper comparisons...

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by DeeezNuuuts83

The long-term reliability of VWs is scary to me.

Seriously, too many anecdotal horror stories from just about every VW owner I have ever encountered have pretty much cemented the fact that I will not be buying one...ever...

[blackhawkdown]

Originally Posted by Lonewolf

Seriously, too many anecdotal horror stories from just about every VW owner I have ever encountered have pretty much cemented the fact that I will not be buying one...ever...

same here, just horror stories about VW in general. we had a 2003 jetta that had a lot of electrical issues, sold that bitch quick after constantly fixing it.