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Old 01-18-2013, 10:11 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russv View Post
The top speed for the auto was in "auto mode", I wonder if it was kept in 5th gear in manual mode if you could get a higher top speed. Maybe have to do a "personal" test.
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Good data, but we can agree to disagree. The "real" difference of a 1/2 second you mention is in fact not real. The real measured difference is a tenth of a second as measured. You and I do not know how fast the motortrend driver shifted the MT. Not a safe assumption you are making!!

You could also argue the longer gears in AT the car wont be shifting as much which might help on certain autox or road courses. Ironically, power isnt the point of this car. Balance is. In a straight line if you can get a 1.7 or 1.8 60' in a MT during a 1/4 mile run and a 2.2 - 2.5 60' in a AT... Thats over a second on the end of the run. Right about the diff between both in many of the tests. Thats why I think it is mainly the launch.
i agree.believe the main difference between both of them is in the dead launch from standstill they are "both" close enough at other speeds to not make an appreciable difference.certainly plenty of power on hand to have tons of fun.i really don't care if the stick is a little faster,as the "slush" in THIS car is,in my view, just as much of a pleasure to drive.never thought i would say that,but the engineers did a great job with the "slush!"

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Old 01-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by MmmHamSandwich View Post

Automatic FR-S

Zero to 60 mph: 8.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 21.4 sec
Rolling start, 560 mph: 8.2 sec
Auto mode, 3050 mph: 4.1 sec
Auto mode, 5070 mph: 5.3 sec
Standing -mile: 16.3 sec @ 90 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 125 mph
Source

Manual FR-S
Zero to 60 mph: 6.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 16.6 sec
Rolling start, 560 mph: 8.1 sec
Top gear, 3050 mph: 13.1 sec
Top gear, 5070 mph: 10.3 sec
Standing -mile: 14.9 sec @ 95 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 136 mph
Source(PDF)

These numbers are from Car and Driver.

When a launch is factored out, the difference in acceleration times to 60 are minimal. The auto's taller gears do put it at a disadvantage at the car's upper speed limit.

The disparity between the 0-100 times is a bit surprising given what they recorded for the quarter miles. *shrug* Then again the auto runs out of energy 11 miles per hour earlier.
truthfully,seeing this comparison from a ''rolling start" to 60,makes me feel that the ''slush" would be the better pick,IF fuel mileage is a consideration.
could be a deal maker,along with "perhaps" better re-sale values as the years roll by with the ''slush",however that may be askin' too much! we'll see i guess!
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #73
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I'm not convinced there is much if any difference between sport and normal auto when you're in kickdown. As far as in manual, if you time your shifts spot on there is probably little difference, however in manual mode there is of course the possibility of short shifting it or banging into the rev limiter depending on what mode you are in.

My guess is they left it into auto mode for all tests. For example, where I put the 30-50 and 50-70 times for the auto, C&D actually still called it "Top gear" as if they manually stuck it in 6th and put the pedal down. Obviously based on the times that is NOT what happened so I took the liberty of modifing the title. I figure if they ran it in full auto there, I would tend to guess they'd do it in the other sprints as well.

I am curious to see what would happen between the MT and AT if they both went at it from say, 80mph. Makes me wonder if the auto truly does run out of steam at 125. That top end performance definitely seems lacking, but then again I rarely see triple digits, don't street race, and a good percentage of my driving is highway where a few extra mpg's and less noise never killed anyone.

Aside from my sneaking suspicion the toque converter allows for some slippage at lower rpm's, I am still very happy with my AT thus far. I am wondering if Visconti or any other ecu tuners can access status info for the transmission. Anyone know?
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:24 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by jmaryt View Post
truthfully,seeing this comparison from a ''rolling start" to 60,makes me feel that the ''slush" would be the better pick,IF fuel mileage is a consideration.
could be a deal maker,along with "perhaps" better re-sale values as the years roll by with the ''slush",however that may be askin' too much! we'll see i guess!
Your use of quotation marks is really confusing. You don't believe that comparison to be of an actual rolling start?
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:46 AM   #75
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Good data, but we can agree to disagree. The "real" difference of a 1/2 second you mention is in fact not real. The real measured difference is a tenth of a second as measured. You and I do not know how fast the motortrend driver shifted the MT. Not a safe assumption you are making!!
First of all, the AT only requires one shift to 60, the MT needs 2 - so even if the shifts took the same time on the AT, the manual car would lose twice as much shifting time on the 5-60 run. And it's no assumption to state that a manual shift takes a few tenths of a second - just a fact. Maybe it could be done in a tenth if you skipped the clutching but that can't really be done safely in a production car. Ever looked at those old R&T acceleration graphs for MT cars? There is ALWAYS a 2/10th sec period of no acceleration between shifts. When the driveline is engaged, though, the acceleration will be stronger with the MT than the auto thanks to those gear ratios (and its very slightly lighter vehicle weight) - thus the tiny difference in 5-60 times between the auto and manual.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:51 AM   #76
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Not trying to make you mad. All I am saying is you don't know for a fact if the MT driver was power shifting (no-lift shift) or regular shifting. Also, I thought this AT REALLY depends on what mode you are in and at what RPM dictate how fast it shifts. It's fast for an AT shift, but not as fast as say the LFA AT. Finally, you don't know how the AT was driven either, if it was in regular auto, auto sport, or paddle shifting. Yes, all those make a very big difference in a straight line. Auto is slowest. Auto sport is more aggressive, but I bet slower than paddle shifting to redline as I think Auto sport shifts well before redline in some of the lower gears (if memory serves me correctly - I will need to test that next time I drive it). Paddle shifting if driven properly is fastest if the right shift points are used (again, another wildcard we don't know even if they did paddleshift, at what RPM did the driver shift??).

Not saying those other things don't affect the straightline speed (gear ratios in 1-4, very, very slight weight difference ~50 lbs), just that I think launch is the very biggest factor. This is if you can somehow equalize the driver factor (always the biggest factor!!). Sorry if you disagree.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:14 AM   #77
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Your use of quotation marks is really confusing. You don't believe that comparison to be of an actual rolling start?
i believe that given the fact that the "rolling start" numbers are so close,the additional benefit of better fuel mileage "overall" gives an advantage to the slush box.
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Old 01-20-2013, 05:16 AM   #78
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i believe that given the fact that the "rolling start" numbers are so close,the additional benefit of better fuel mileage "overall" gives an advantage to the slush box.
You did it again, which is fine, but that's nowhere near the vicinity of answering the question I asked. Don't worry about it.

Quotes used that way (around a single word) are generally to denote the writer doesn't believe that the word in quotes is valid/correct. You've clearly got something else entirely going on, but I'll be damned if I can work out what.

Anyway, as you were.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #79
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yes i do believe it is indicative of a rolling start! the answer is "yes"
it's "kewl" my wife believes i have "something going on upstairs' too!
that works out rather well for me,as she never really knows what i am up to!
just sayin'
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:05 PM   #80
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Drag limited to 125 my ass
This was done on a closed road by the way

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Old 01-20-2013, 02:32 PM   #81
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just curious! once you reached the buck and a quarter,how long did it take to reach the 142?
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:40 PM   #82
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Factor in possible grade, tailwind, and speedo error and I believe the drag limited number is close enough.
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Old 01-20-2013, 04:11 PM   #83
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Drag limited to 125 my ass
This was done on a closed road by the way

5th Gear!
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:23 PM   #84
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Exactly - I consider the AT more like a 5 speed (for performance) AT with an extremely long 6th gear for overdrive and gas mileage. I would never have the car in 6th gear for anything performance related. And even if I was doing the Texas mile, it would probably stay in 5th gear as shown in that pic. So if the testers did consider it "drag limited" at 125 in 6th gear, it just proves (like I theorize) they are not driving the AT to its full potential.

The very same magazine has the MT in 6th gear for the top gear 30-50 and 50-70 mph. Obviously as they should for the top gear test. But then the AT is in auto as stated and must be down in a lower gear in auto mode when the test is started and it makes a huge difference. Now why didn't the magazine for the sake of consistency very simply put the AT in manual mod, in 6th gear, and do the same test versus running it in complete auto mode (not even sure if it's in sport??)?

These things make me question the overall consistency of testing and drivers. And for the record, I definitely do think the AT is a tad slower than the MT. But that is just a tiny bit. Not nearly the disparity some of these tests show once the cars are in motion. Again, I think the MT has a huge advandage from a complete stop and launching since the AT pretty much does not allow for performance in that test. But once in motion, I think they are pretty close with a slight edge to MT. I have driven both MT and AT so have a decent feel for each. I own the AT and very familar with it in spirited driving. Unfortunately I only test drove the MT so didn't get to launch or beat on it, but definitely did not feel like a huge difference from the AT in normal driving from an acceration perspective.

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