Edelbrock E-Force Supercharger

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

I'm not launching it either. Applying 1/4 to 1/3 throttle like for everyday civilized driving I notice a momentary lull compared to none in my friend's stock FR-S below ~2.5k RPMs.

I rarely go over 10% for daily driving... you guys must be speed demons.

I know this because 100% of my driving is logged >.<

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I rarely go over 10% for daily driving... you guys must be speed demons.

I know this because 100% of my driving is logged >.<

I don't have logging so I have to estimate pedal travel. If the first few mm is slop in the pedal spring (call it 15% slop), then 25% minus 15% is 10%. Put another way, I accelerate fast enough so the Prius and minivan on either side pull away from me through first gear (when I was stock we'd be dead even).

[killboy]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

Also, the lull has become very subtle and I didn't think anything of it these past few months. That's because it improved with the ECU adjusting over time til I accepted it as back to normal. I could never tell whether the response fully adjusted all the way back to normal til I drove my friend's FR-S last night. It should have adjusted by now but there is still a difference.

Who did your tune? I am running the Cosworth S/C with a custom ECUtek tune, and at first I was not happy with how dead the throttle pedal felt for the first half of travel. I spoke to my tuner about it, (Sharif @ Forged Performance) and he spent some time making several revisions to the pedal curve until getting it very nice for my tastes...very snappy and aggressive off the bottom now. Maybe talk to your tuner if you had someone do it, and see if they can do the same.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by killboy

Who did your tune? I am running the Cosworth S/C with a custom ECUtek tune, and at first I was not happy with how dead the throttle pedal felt for the first half of travel. I spoke to my tuner about it, (Sharif @ Forged Performance) and he spent some time making several revisions to the pedal curve until getting it very nice for my tastes...very snappy and aggressive off the bottom now. Maybe talk to your tuner if you had someone do it, and see if they can do the same.

It's the smog tune provided by Edelbrock. There are other tunes such as Flash n Go by Delicious with 20 ft-lb improvement on low end. But I'm only curious about whether this is common and normal for all smog tuned owners before I consider dumping hundreds on another tune.

[bprayogo]

Im a distributor for Edelbrock here in my country Indonesia. As well as a Ecutek Tuner.

For the dead pedal , lag or unresponsive issue on the edelbrock sc even after you pass the throttle learning period .you may want to check your bypass valve under the plenum . make sure it can move back and forth smoothly, spray a silicone lubricant if necessary . and check the vacuum hose from the back of the plenum to the valve assembly.

[j123ic]

If you guys are having issues with tip-in throttle. Post a log so we can have a look. Just do a quick tip in with %100 throttle from 2300rpm to 4000rpm in whatever gear. Please log tps, map (kpa), rpm, AFR, intake temp., advance multiplier, ignition timing, etc....

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by j123ic

If you guys are having issues with tip-in throttle. Post a log so we can have a look. Just do a quick tip in with %100 throttle from 2300rpm to 4000rpm in whatever gear. Please log tps, map (kpa), rpm, AFR, intake temp., advance multiplier, ignition timing, etc....

I'll try to set it up. I'm guessing I won't need the original smog tune file to capture this but I asked my shop to forward what Edelbrock sent to them anyway.

[BigFatFlip]

Looks like I'm a little late to the party, but I'll weigh in anyway

Originally Posted by switchlanez

When I first got the kit installed in December, I noticed the throttle wasn't as responsive accelerating from a stop in the first couple thousand RPMs as before I got the kit. Figured the ECU needs to relearn throttle mapping and fix itself (also did the dead pedal fix procedure which I've done years ago when I installed an intake and noticed the procedure made a difference). But last night I drove a friend's stock FR-S and it is clear that his car was more smooth and responsive from take off. My car still has noticeably less response during the lull than his car followed by a surge of power/torque. This is with the smog tune. Are others seeing this?
@NotSoJDM, @BigFatFlip, @shiumai

Originally Posted by djdnz

Yup, I've had trouble with smooth take offs ever since installing the s/c. Not sure if it's something wrong with my install, tune related, or s/c related though. If I take it extra slow, I find modulation is easier. When I do a normal/quick take off, I usually end up bogging slightly and then a surge of power. I'm sure it looks like a newbie driving stick from outside the car.

Originally Posted by 86fun

I have this exact behavior as well, but I recently found my manifold gasket was damaged during install, so I'm in the process of replacing them and will have results soon to see if that's what the problem was. If so, you guys might have a clue that something similar happened to yours. If not, well then, we keep searching, or maybe just that's the way it is with this kit.

I've been reserving judgement until I've had significant time with the kit (had it since Nov) but I would say that I also noticed the "lull" from around 2.5k-3k rpm before the noticeable "kick" around 3.5k-4.5k rpm. I've attributed this to throttle mapping since someone very knowledgeable has told me that the CARB tune has pretty much the exact same throttle mapping as stock. I think having more mid-top range power magnifies this sensation, so it feels like nothing to A LOT compared to stock.

Originally Posted by killboy

Who did your tune? I am running the Cosworth S/C with a custom ECUtek tune, and at first I was not happy with how dead the throttle pedal felt for the first half of travel. I spoke to my tuner about it, (Sharif @ Forged Performance) and he spent some time making several revisions to the pedal curve until getting it very nice for my tastes...very snappy and aggressive off the bottom now. Maybe talk to your tuner if you had someone do it, and see if they can do the same.

This was kinda part of the reason I was looking into the Delicious E-force tune, but did not get enough feed back from others to justify the price. I have driven a friends car (non-FI) with a modified throttle map (linear) and it was quite a bit more responsive but very "jumpy" and was more difficult drive "smooth" on the street.

Originally Posted by j123ic

If you guys are having issues with tip-in throttle. Post a log so we can have a look. Just do a quick tip in with %100 throttle from 2300rpm to 4000rpm in whatever gear. Please log tps, map (kpa), rpm, AFR, intake temp., advance multiplier, ignition timing, etc....

I've kinda suspected that I have a little bit of this "tip-in knock" so I'll grab a log this afternoon and post it.

As for now, I'm happy with my CARB tune.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by BigFatFlip

I think having more mid-top range power magnifies this sensation, so it feels like nothing to A LOT compared to stock.

That was my original thought process and I dismissed the lull as an illusion. Til I compared with my friend's FR-S and paid special attention to keep shifts below when the kick normally comes in around 3-3.5k. The difference is subtle and nothing to lose sleep over but it is there. The only way to feel the difference is to drive a stock one yourself.

[86fun]

The descriptions above sound just like how mine feels on the CARB tune.


I noticed once when sitting and logging with the car ON but engine not started that when I slammed the accelerator pedal down the actual throttle plate would move about 1/2 a second later (you can hear it move). I thought it was kind of interesting as a direct cable driven system would be immediate and figured a fly by wire system would be the same, I guess not! I wonder how much this contributes to the feeling of "lag".


I agree with swithclanez it's nothing to lose sleep over, but it's certainly not as smooth as any OEM power delivery I've ever felt. Also good to note that at high RPM shifts there is no lag whatsoever, at least for me...

[shiumai]

I wonder if it's done on purpose to protect the drivetrain during launch attempts from a standing start.

[BigFatFlip]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

That was my original thought process and I dismissed the lull as an illusion. Til I compared with my friend's FR-S and paid special attention to keep shifts below when the kick normally comes in around 3-3.5k. The difference is subtle and nothing to lose sleep over but it is there. The only way to feel the difference is to drive a stock one yourself.

Other than the "linear throttle mapped", I've only driven a JRSC'd car recently, so I don't have much to compare to. I may have the opportunity to drive a near stock car in the near future, so I'll try to be more aware while driving.

Originally Posted by 86fun

I noticed once when sitting and logging with the car ON but engine not started that when I slammed the accelerator pedal down the actual throttle plate would move about 1/2 a second later (you can hear it move). I thought it was kind of interesting as a direct cable driven system would be immediate and figured a fly by wire system would be the same, I guess not! I wonder how much this contributes to the feeling of "lag"

To be honest, I've never liked the drive-by-wire feel of the car when it was stock. I would lurch back and forth on very light throttle when trying to "crawl" in traffic, and the only way I could stop it is to completely take my foot, let the throttle plate settle, then ease back on the gas pedal. I've also noticed it lurch forward when going over a sharp bump (basically making me "tap" the throttle a little).

I haven't had any of those problems with the CARB tune. I guess I'm in the minority that likes the less sensitive pedal

Originally Posted by shiumai

I wonder if it's done on purpose to protect the drivetrain during launch attempts from a standing start.

I was thinking that as well. This is my first SC'd car (I've only had NA and turbos in the past), so I've always thought that boost builds along with rpms, so low rpms= low boost =not as much power/not as responsive? Would parasitic drag from the SC'd also play in all of this?

[NotSoJDM]

Originally Posted by switchlanez

When I first got the kit installed in December, I noticed the throttle wasn't as responsive accelerating from a stop in the first couple thousand RPMs as before I got the kit. Figured the ECU needs to relearn throttle mapping and fix itself (also did the dead pedal fix procedure which I've done years ago when I installed an intake and noticed the procedure made a difference). But last night I drove a friend's stock FR-S and it is clear that his car was more smooth and responsive from take off. My car still has noticeably less response during the lull than his car followed by a surge of power/torque. This is with the smog tune. Are others seeing this?
@NotSoJDM, @BigFatFlip, @shiumai

Looks like I'm a bit behind on keeping up with this thread.


Yes, I had similar hesitation with the CARB tune. I also have it with my Delicious FNG tune. It is the worst for me in 1st gear, which is not smooth on constant throttle accel in non-WOT conditions.


My assumption was that it is something to do with the base file used for the tune. As far as I know, ECUtek provides a 'base' forced induction map for their tuners to start from, so there may be something in the file that is common between both the CARB and DT files that are causing it. Unfortunately, both tunes are locked from viewing, and I am not knowledgeable enough outside of your standard maps to know what would contribute to the feeling described.


I have driven a Cosworth supercharged car as well, and didn't notice the same hesitation, so that gives me confidence that there is the ability to tune it out. But, without visibility to any of the tunes, its hard to compare maps. Maybe the guys at DT/Edelbrock could collab on looking into it.

[Uplink]

Originally Posted by killboy

Who did your tune? I am running the Cosworth S/C with a custom ECUtek tune, and at first I was not happy with how dead the throttle pedal felt for the first half of travel. I spoke to my tuner about it, (Sharif @ Forged Performance) and he spent some time making several revisions to the pedal curve until getting it very nice for my tastes...very snappy and aggressive off the bottom now. Maybe talk to your tuner if you had someone do it, and see if they can do the same.

Just have to chime in with a quick editorial...
It's funny, this is one of the reasons I absolutely despise drive-by-wire systems. In... let's just say a lot of years driving, I've never once had a throttle response issue in any cable driven car. Carb or TB, pedal travel to response was always nice and linear. Never liked the idea of letting the computer decide what you really wanted.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread...