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Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB Problems, issues, recalls, TSBs


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Old 11-29-2018, 10:01 AM   #435
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I have no doubt they will be fine with the task but I still would rather wait for them to get some practice. Have you ever done a job on a car, even using the service manual to the T and not walked away saying, "if I did this job again I would do XYZ"? Here is an example on the FA20. When you repack the timing cover and go to install it there aren't any guiding studs and you have to slap it on in perfect alignment. If you misplace it just the slightest bit and have the slide it around to match the bolt holes you will smear the packing all over the place. In a perfect world you would pull it back off, clean it up (pain in the ass even if it hasn't hardened yet) and reapply. So, after doing my cover I said, "if I have to do this again I will buy 4 3in threaded studs to place at the for corners of the engine so the cover will be forced into alignment before the surfaces make contact". Does the manual say anything about this? Nope. Would a tech who has done the job before know this and have some studs on hand, probably.


Hopefully part of the delay on the full details of the fix are them working on special tools, more detailed instructions and some training material.
See you were able to do a job without Subaru coming in and training you and (I presume) without the resources available in in fully equipped dedicated automotive shop. There is no reason in the world why people that do this work for 8 hours every single work day will struggle with it. Will there be a handful that screw it up even with very specific instructions? Most certainly but no more than in any other profession.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:13 AM   #436
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See you were able to do a job without Subaru coming in and training you and (I presume) without the resources available in in fully equipped dedicated automotive shop. There is no reason in the world why people that do this work for 8 hours every single work day will struggle with it. Will there be a handful that screw it up even with very specific instructions? Most certainly but no more than in any other profession.

True, but I would still rather give it a few months on mine. There are plenty of threads on this forum about people spinning bearings months after a timing cover reseal. I, know I know, you don't here about the people that had successful reseals. I wouldn't be surprised if a tech would place the cover 1cm off and then slide it in place and call it a day because the clean up is god awful. I've cleaned up Honda Bond and some of Toyota's FIPG and it's not that bad but this ThreeBond stuff is no joke. All I know is my car has 96K on it and I will not loose any sleep running it another 5K before doing the recall. But that is just my opinion and I'm not suggesting everyone wait. To suggest that they will be perficient on day one simply because they are perficient on other engines just doesn't add up for me. I am also specifically speaking of Toyota techs.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:21 AM   #437
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True, but I would still rather give it a few months on mine. There are plenty of threads on this forum about people spinning bearings months after a timing cover reseal. I, know I know, you don't here about the people that had successful reseals. I wouldn't be surprised if a tech would place the cover 1cm off and then slide it in place and call it a day because the clean up is god awful. I've cleaned up Honda Bond and some of Toyota's FIPG and it's not that bad but this ThreeBond stuff is no joke. All I know is my car has 96K on it and I will not loose any sleep running it another 5K before doing the recall. But that is just my opinion and I'm not suggesting everyone wait. To suggest that they will be perficient on day one simply because they are perficient on other engines just doesn't add up for me. I am also specifically speaking of Toyota techs.
Yet you are able to work on a boxer engine perfectly. OK.
Please link one thread where a bearing spun after a reseal.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:48 AM   #438
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Yep. I may have been a little harsh and will probably take some shit but this whole thread is annoying. It is a simple recall. Happens all the time to all manufacturers yet normally intelligent and knowledgeable people seem to have lost all sense of reality. There are people afraid of professionals working on their car, ones that think they are entitled to a whole new engine, some that can't seem to understand the simple instruction of "wait and we will tell you what to do next", and even some that feel there is some sort of "due diligence" required so the dealers won't screw them over.
People do know that the car and all the parts are assembled by a bunch of average Joes and Janes (or the Japanese equivalent) who's whole training may consist of "put this part here. Repeat". Hell some of the parts could be made by people tat are borderline illiterate. There is no magic to building or repairing cars.
There has been some good info to come out of this like the preliminary rundown of what needs to happen to get to where the problem part is. This gave us an idea of what parts could be replaced while they're in there that would otherwise be a (expensive) hassle to get to.

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I will just wait for a recall and see if I can get a break on the cost since they have to open it up anyway.
I called my dealer and they said they expect that they'll want an additional $300+ to change the spark plugs. According to the preliminary procedure listed earlier in the thread they already have to pull the plugs so why would they want the full replacement cost if it was done the regular way? They'll also need to pull the belt off the front of the motor to get the timing cover off so why do they want full price to replace that too? They should give a break on the labor for these things since Subaru will be paying them to pull and replace the parts, asking for that same labor money directly form us also is wrong. I know that I'm going to call around and find a dealer that will change those parts for me at no additional cost other than the cost of the parts themselves. Heck my dealer wouldn't even tell me if my car is on "the list" because I will get a letter in the mail if it is otherwise I shouldn't worry about it.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:57 AM   #439
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Lets not forget the several hundred thousand other models affected. This is not just a Twins thing.
No, paranoid 86's owners are only concerned about one model, the rest are unimportant
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:00 PM   #440
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Yet you are able to work on a boxer engine perfectly. OK.
he's not on the clock...he can do as much research as he wants or take as much time as he wants to do it right...
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:03 PM   #441
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They are fucking valve springs not rocket ship components. The techs will do just fine.
Maybe they should think of it as a 180° V4, and then any ol' mechanic can work on it?

...and I've worked on rocket ship stuff, well trained mechanics can still screw stuff up.
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Old 11-29-2018, 12:23 PM   #442
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he's not on the clock...he can do as much research as he wants or take as much time as he wants to do it right...
Bingo.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:05 PM   #443
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I find the tech qualification discussion amusing. Does no one here ever use an independent garage?

Except for warranty (or recall) type work I always use a local garage.

Yes, I've used the same independent garage in this area for the past 25 years. They have worked on all of my vehicles. If I have something I feel is sort of "tricky", they allow me to speak directly with the tech that is going to do the work. They will even allow me to go into the work area and point out what I'm talking about (even without wearing a hard hat and goggles).

The tech has ask me in the past "do you want to stay out here and watch me do the work?" I say, no, I'd rather go back in the office and swap old auto stories with the old guys that own the place. Or have a smoke, drink a cup of coffee and read a car magazine -


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Old 11-29-2018, 01:19 PM   #444
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[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSDjrBKLKEg[/ame]

Video goes over this issue. Unfortunately I don't have a translation.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:23 PM   #445
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he's not on the clock...he can do as much research as he wants or take as much time as he wants to do it right...

Good point. It took me 2 months. Probably 40 hours of actual work. A large chunk (largest chunk) was cleaning. Once the engine was apart I took a break from working on it and simply studied the oil system for weeks trying to understand why it failed. I actually did a whole shortblock from Toyota. Had I rebuilt the bottom end (middle end?) it would have taken even longer and more packing to clean and reapply.
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Old 11-29-2018, 01:24 PM   #446
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They will even allow me to go into the work area and point out what I'm talking about (even without wearing a hard hat and goggles).
You are extremely fortunate to have found a shop with some rare mix of talent and social skills. Like I mentioned earlier, the really good ones appreciate sharing. Not always, but the antisocial guys are usually the sloppy ones.
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Old 11-29-2018, 02:02 PM   #447
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You are extremely fortunate to have found a shop with some rare mix of talent and social skills. Like I mentioned earlier, the really good ones appreciate sharing. Not always, but the antisocial guys are usually the sloppy ones.
Yep, I am. After they work on my car, I stop by a day or so later and tell the manager to tell the tech that he did a good job and the car is running perfectly now ..

A few weeks ago, I was there at the shop waiting on mrs humfrz's car to be serviced, when I noticed the manager was trying to explain to this really old lady what needed to be done to her car.


She looked very puzzled and confused. I went over, broke into the conversation and introduced myself to her and said that I'd been coming to these guys for several years and that they wouldn't try to sell you something that you didn't need.

She said "thank you young man" (I mentioned to you that she was really old - ), for the reassurance.

She then turned to the service manager and told him to do whatever needed to be done.


THE END
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Old 11-29-2018, 03:46 PM   #448
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Geez, some of you act like the internal combustion engine is some sort of alien technology. Any competent technician understands how one operates and what a valve spring does. You're comparing apples to green apples. A GM engine technician would be able to work on a Chrysler engine, Honda, Toyota Kia etc. They're all engines with similar inner workings, granted, the boxer is different from an inline or V configuration, but is still not a new technology. They've been around awhile and still do the same things any other engine does.

Plus if things go south and my engine blows up I either:
1. Get a free engine out of it, or
2. Accelerate my plan to engine swap my car with something else

I'm really NOT concerned the least bit.

Last edited by frsty_86; 11-29-2018 at 03:48 PM. Reason: oops
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