Sad BRZ display at the auto show

[Gunman]

We took the original Mosler MT900 to the Miami auto show, and even though we had it roped off, with two people standing there to answer questions, idiots would go under/over/around the ropes to get in.

[Spacemane969]

Originally Posted by jmaryt

i have encountered scion salesmen that have a ahhh so what attitude,and i attribute this
to the fact they don't see many of these cars,so there really isn't much in it for them! i can understand this,however from a consumer's perspective,i just don't trust this car with a lot of miles on it.i'll buy one with 5 or 10 miles on it only! besides,it's in the interests of the salesman to indicate it was gently driven when in reality it was not!.just don't trust it! as for the mechanics,i am in complete agreement.

My scion dealer took us out back in a used 13' for donuts and shenanigans. He was crazy but I still respect his enthusiasm for the twins.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PandaSPUR

Says who? Genuinely curious here. All the break-in period stuff I see says to stay below 4000RPM and not to hold at any one speed/RPM for too long (i.e. no cruise control)

There is a camp that says rev the crap out of new engines to make things seat better. Maybe once was true but a bad idea with modern engines. Still some people stick with the theory no matter what the engineers that designed and built the car say. I for one will follow instructions.

[s0sl0w]

You break a car in how you intend to drive it. And you maintain it to match. So if you intend to drive it like a Camry then break it in like one.

I drive it like what it is, so I'll take the word of people who build motors to do what I like doing with my car. 30k miles later and no oil consumption or problems as of yet.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is a camp that says rev the crap out of new engines to make things seat better. Maybe once was true but a bad idea with modern engines. Still some people stick with the theory no matter what the engineers that designed and built the car say. I for one will follow instructions.

I think people are pulling that assumption from older built cars, or people who have put cams in and break them in and assume it's the same way. In the motorcycle world its the same thing. I'd follow the manual as well just keep it under 4000 rpm and vary the RPMs.

[s0sl0w]

*shrug*

You do what you want, but you're deluded if you think your owners manual was written by engineers and not lawyers.

[BRZSS]

Engines are broken in at the factory on a dyno. The rings are seated long before the car is put on a cargo ship and shipped around the world. With modern machining and precision the time it takes to seat the piston rings on an aluminum engine, full break in is done with one heat cycle after about 5 to 10 minutes.

As soon as a vehicle has ended it's assembly it is manually driven off the line. This is to insure the vehicle functions as intended. It is taken right over to a dyno and then runs a ramp up test sequence to break the motor in and then take it to redline. As well as component test in regards to the engine. Once this is done the vehicle is good to go and is shipped after a final inspection. You can actually see this in the video listed here: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El5vpA8wdAs"]The Factory Life: A Behind-the-scenes at Nissan production in Japan - YouTube[/ame]

It's a video of a Nissan production plant but the operations are similar across all manufactures. The dyno I mention you can see at the 4 minute and 8 second mark.

All this talk about what is and is not proper engine break in comes from old thinking and the Wiki article on Mechanical Run In (Break In) states such thought best: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Break-...hanical_run-in)

People developed elaborate theories on what was needed and why, and it was hard to sift the empirical evidence in trying to test or confirm the theories. Anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias definitely played at least some part. Today engineers can confidently advise users not to put too much stock in old theories of long, elaborate break-in regimens. Some users will not give credence to the engineers and will stick to their own ideas anyway; but their careful break-in beliefs are still harmless and serve roughly like a placebo in allowing them to assure themselves that they've maximized the equipment's working lifespan through their due diligence.

Subaru would not offer a 3 year engine warranty if they had no guarantee that you would follow the "proper" break in procedure to begin with. Its in their interest to break in an engine properly themselves then sell it to you. Then to hope you'll do it right yourself and if not then they eat the repair bill under warranty when engine issues arise.

[SleepingPanda]

Since when do manufacturers care how long your engine lasts? They only want it to cover the warranty. After that. They would LOVE to sell you some new rings. Lol.

They also say your first oil change isn't due until like 5000 miles. You believe that too? Personally I changed my oil at 1100 miles. And again at 3000. Don't want any chips or flakes floating around the oil and damaging bearings.

The factory didn't give us a magnetic drain plug either. Must be because the engineers know we don't need one right? Lol.

[krayzie]

The break-in dyno at 7:27 for the BRZ:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdZcX7Hawhk"]2 of 2 SUBARU BRZ Development Movie - YouTube[/ame]

[jarnojvv]

Originally Posted by s0sl0w

Provided the car was properly warmed up its a good thing for them to be taken to redline early in life.

It's a sports car. Newsflash, they get driven like sports cars.

Stupid owners manual

[jeffchap]

Hit the redline on the testdrive in mine. Over 30k miles now, and zero problems. I agree, the manual is written by lawyers, not engineers.

[PandaSPUR]

Originally Posted by jeffchap

Hit the redline on the testdrive in mine. Over 30k miles now, and zero problems. I agree, the manual is written by lawyers, not engineers.

Doesn't prove that its a good idea or a bad idea.

I can cut my arm with a knife and my arm will still work fine, there might not even be a scar. A doctor wouldn't recommend that though.

[saj]

I remember the last time I went to the LA Auto Show there was a kid sitting in a BMW Z4M Roadster slamming through the gears without the clutch. His brother was in the passenger seat banging on things, and his mom was standing beside taking pictures of them.

[BRZSS]

Originally Posted by SleepingPanda

Since when do manufacturers care how long your engine lasts?

Ever since Toyota Camry's got the reputation of being low cost maintenance and lasting forever. If your engines won't last well past warranty then your reputation as a company goes down hill.

Again, if they don't break the engine in themselves, they're then relying on the consumer to do it properly. You never trust that a consumer will "follow every instruction to the letter". You can't even gurantee your sales men will follow the instructions as evident by the "take it to redline" sales men mentioned already. Your opening yourself to lots of money spent on potential engine failure claims in doing that.

All the backyard myths about engine break in's are just superstition based on kernels of truth. Engineers have figured out the science behind it along time ago. The machining and precision process has caught up to the point now an engine can be broken in and ready to go after one heat cycle under a stress test procedure (as seen in the video).

And to your other points, I changed my oil at 5500 miles for the first change. No issues with an Oil Analysis test. I must of just got lucky though you know?

Not many cars come from the factory with a magnetic drain plug also. Including hypercars, supercars, sports cars, corvettes, camaro's, mustangs, and what not. Never been a chronic issue. Matt Farrah's Million mile lexus didn't leave the factory with a mag plug either.

You can hold tight to your superstition and feel good and justified if your engine lasts and thats fine. Your "Break" in doesn't have any negative impact on the engine. So you can believe you've done your self well. Engineers will just get to have a small chuckle at the people who continue to do "break" in on new cars. Driving around varying speed and rpm and every other notion under the sun the first 100, 200, 500, or 1,000 miles or whatever specific measurement your particular break in belief is. Instead of just driving the vehicle the way its meant to be off the show room floor.