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Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing Relating to suspension, chassis, and brakes. Sponsored by 949 Racing.


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Old 03-24-2019, 12:14 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by jamal View Post
The 02-14 WRX has the same sized front rotors and caliper piston sizes (excluding 06-07- smaller pistons) as the BRZ. Any kit meant for those is going to be fine from a bias standpoint. Plus with EBD and ABS small changes are not that big of a deal.

The actual issue is the leading vs trailing caliper mount, so you may not be able to get the caliper pistons in the right order and bleed the brakes properly.


Not a problem with the wildwood calipers and they have bleed screws top +bottom. So either way they are turned is bleedable
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:14 PM   #128
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Most non-native brakes can stop car.
Question being - how well, safe, reliable they will. And right bias is needed for that to be of right compromise to net as good as possible breaking distances across different common pavement types, to keep car stable while braking, and to work well with nannies that may expect for certain bias to be there.
What overall weight of car has to do with that? Only regarding heat capacity of brakes / how long one can do track sessions if used on even lighter car then donor. Bias is one (rest of car, especially tires/weight distribution/aero) that will affect how safe/stable/predictable car stays at heavy braking/lockup/treshold braking, how short are braking distances (if one end of car is not underbraked). And that optimum is specific to specific cars of specific weight distribution and specific suspension design. WRX has different weight distribution. Suspension has many similarities, but is NOT identical. Car maker (and proper BBK vendors) engineers spent lot of time on fine-tailoring best bias, and at different scenarios. Many many times more then enthusiasts can afford testing for limited time on limited scenarios.
If argument of donor car weight vs weight of car brakes will be retrofitted to holds any meaning and should be main deciding factor .. just install brakes from eighteen-wheeler trucks and go right to track, as probably that will be best BBK possible
This is all a stupid argument. The manufacturer did extensive testing of every possible component in the drivetrain and suspension system and they came up with the EXACT SAME BRAKES AS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT (HEAVIER) CAR IN THEIR LINEUP. Bull$hit. They did it because they already had the parts and they were close enough to work well.

Car A has front brakes A, bias A and weight distribution A. Car B has front brakes A, bias B and weight distribution B. If a brake manufacturer makes a kit to replace brake A it works on both car A and car B. As was pointed out above this kit makes a minimal change to bias. This kit is not a BBK. But it IS a huge weight savings off the front end of the car. If you need front brakes anyway and get everything stock you're looking at a couple hundred dollars. This kit is a reasonably priced replacement.

All the arguments being made should be against putting this kit on a WRX, those are pigs compared to a BRZ.
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Old 03-26-2019, 12:49 PM   #129
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toast: one question: why we have only fronts from wrx and rear rotors from legacy gt if brakes supposedly are same as for car with different weight distribution and drivetrain?
Also you are not forgetting proportioning at master cylinder, which can be further selected from available parts by manufacturer to tailor to specific rotor sizing/brake caliper distance from center/pad shape & area/slave pistons sizing to get the right bias.
Sport cars can get by with having proportioning valve to adjust bias, more expertise and testing time & budget to get right bias. Does average Joe has these bits to get it right by hunch feel? To not potentially fsck up system as important as brakes best one can do is to not blindly change parts. Not having brembo branding on calipers or few lb-s more of weight is better & safer then changing brakes with no care. Both for tracked & daily driven car.
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Old 03-26-2019, 01:11 PM   #130
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toast: one question: why we have only fronts from wrx and rear rotors from legacy gt if brakes supposedly are same as for car with different weight distribution and drivetrain?
Also you are not forgetting proportioning at master cylinder, which can be further selected from available parts by manufacturer to tailor to specific rotor sizing/brake caliper distance from center/pad shape & area/slave pistons sizing to get the right bias.
Sport cars can get by with having proportioning valve to adjust bias, more expertise and testing time & budget to get right bias. Does average Joe has these bits to get it right by hunch feel? To not potentially fsck up system as important as brakes best one can do is to not blindly change parts. Not having brembo branding on calipers or few lb-s more of weight is better & safer then changing brakes with no care. Both for tracked & daily driven car.
Like I said, bias of car A and B can be different (via brake kit and proportioning valve), as can weight distribution.

This thread is supposed to be about the Wilwood kit. That is all I'm referring to. The average Joe is not combining random bits with the kit in question.

There is a kit by Wilwood to replace a front brake system. Unless it changes bias a lot by using different piston area and lever arm, it does not matter what car it goes on. If the OEM brakes worked on a given car the replacement kit will work on that car.

Let's make this simpler. My BRZ uses the same O2 sensor as my wife's Mazda CX-5. The manufacturers use different part numbers and charge radically different prices for the two units, but ordered from a parts warehouse they are both the identical Bosch units. Would you argue against using the cheaper mazda O2 sensor on the BRZ?
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Old 03-26-2019, 02:37 PM   #131
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toast: In your example i wouldn't use the CX-5 sensor if i had no means to find out for sure, that it's same sensor. If they only look same from outside, but i have no means to find out their electrical specs or that they are indeed very same specific bosch sensor (eg. by specific bosch markings on it regarding part model/specs), i shouldn't automatically assume that they are same because it seems so or i want to believe as that would justify less spendings.
Back to this particular kit. My bad, i apologize for that, i didn't read throughout all pages of thread (or forgot beginning, if i had read thread in past). Corrected my mistake and reread all pages from beginning. This is about front-only willwood wrx kit that people installing for weight savings and bias thing is dealt with assumption that if we have stock wrx brakes front and this kit was meant to keep bias same to stock wrx rears then it won't change bias on ours too, right? That sounds to me safe enough (apart from willwood rep mentioning that this has less thermal capacity, so should be used only for DD/autocross, not for track abuse, which should just kept in mind considering planned usage). Due not reading all thread this bit slipped from me and in my mind this thread meshed with other swap threads like those of different brembos swap from other subbies or cadillac just for branding/looks and such.
I guess my mistake was me lighting up seeing that people mostly mentioned in later posts pro swap reasoning only "works for heavier car, will work for ours", "i have no data, but from few stops it seemed that it's better". Such reasonings alone seem to me utterly wrong, hence i hastily flamed about importance of ensuring same bias for safety reasons. Not reasoning of "same bias as fronts only kit from car with same stock front brakes as our stock ones". And back to O2 sensor example .. even if it is for different part and eg. reduces performance or life of engine .. that still sounds to me way more acceptable/safer then blindly modifying brakes. I just had missed bit that this was rare not "blind" swap, unlike several others here for branding/looks reasons alone, looking just for lowest cost and boltability while ignoring safety. Though if this kit had been for all four wheels, then this swap wouldn't feel safe enough to me to perform, as some BBK offerings are designed to work right only with own according parts as set, not with stock brakes on other end, unless someone does proper full testing (most normal car owners don't have means/time/funds/ways to do unlike vendors/manufacturers) to ensure not shifted bias.
Luckily i noticed highlighted front brake system bit in your post which made me correct my misunderstanding.
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Old 05-03-2019, 02:49 PM   #132
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Not a problem with the wildwood calipers and they have bleed screws top +bottom. So either way they are turned is bleedable
Did you ever find/replace the rears with lightweight ones?

https://www.pandlmotorsports.com/sho...kit-95-subaru/

claims 40lbs reduction for the rears not sure if you seen this or not.
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Old 05-03-2019, 02:55 PM   #133
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Did you ever find/replace the rears with lightweight ones?

https://www.pandlmotorsports.com/sho...kit-95-subaru/

claims 40lbs reduction for the rears not sure if you seen this or not.
Those aren't street legal if you live in a state with vehicle safety inspections. You have to remove the parking brake to run them.
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Old 05-03-2019, 03:03 PM   #134
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Plus they are meant for drag racing, not braking performance.
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Old 05-03-2019, 06:41 PM   #135
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Did you ever find/replace the rears with lightweight ones?

https://www.pandlmotorsports.com/sho...kit-95-subaru/

claims 40lbs reduction for the rears not sure if you seen this or not.
yeah I really want those I don't see why they cant put in a iron sleeve in the rotor hat to keep parking brake.

Only thing I could find is there is a base rear brake that is 3lbs lighter per side. Basically you go from a double vane rotor to a single vane, calipers are slightly different. I can get you part #'s. I think total kit with calipers + rotors was <$300 from rockauto
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