Failure After J02 Recall - Discussion Threads

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by ermax

So now I’m curious if they aren’t using the correct Threebond and it breaks away easier than the correct stuff or maybe they are throwing oil in it and starting it before it cures. I forget what the cure time was on the Threebond. I didn’t put oil back in mine for days because I just didn’t have time to work on the project.

What a mess this whole recall is. I feel really bad for everyone getting screwed by the dealers.

I think you might be onto something here.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I think you might be onto something here.

Makes you want to buy two tubes on Amazon ($20/tube) and hand it to them when dropping off the car for the recall. Hahaha

The recall instructions don't say anything about how long to wait before adding oil or starting the car but the repair manual says to wait 30mins before adding oil or starting. The recall instructions also say "only P/N 00295-1217H will be accepted for FIPG Sealant". 1217H is grey so those photos above are proof that they didn't follow the recall instructions. Not saying that using the wrong packing is the cause of his failure but legally it is proof they didn't follow the instructions there for it would be easy to assume other parts of the instructions may have also been ignored.

Everytime I go over the recall instructions I notice little details that aren't in the repair manual. For example they tell you to put tape over the OCVs before cleaning off the old packing. They also have significantly more detail in how to apply the packing on the caps and timing cover. They have revised the path you take around the oil gallery on the timing cover and they make it very clear how critical it is to not use too much on the cam caps for risk of "engine seizure". Toyota/Subaru really have gone out of their way to make very good instructions. I wish these instructions were around when I did my rebuild.

[maslin]

Those photos show a lot sealant. The instructions specify bead widths, they are substantially larger than I’m used to, guess that Japanese machining isn’t as exact as the Germans.

They’ve been updating the procedure, looks like 2/13 is the most recent. I like this part. Those pictures aren’t fake, they know exactly what’s happening.

Page 31 of the 2/13 update is pretty good too. Lots of yellow highlighter and bold “carefully”. I think they found the problem. Their technicians.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by maslin

They’ve been updating the procedure, looks like 2/13 is the most recent. I like this part. Those pictures aren’t fake, they know exactly what’s happening.

Wow that is interesting. Do you have a link to this updated version? The instructions I am looking at are from 12/20. You are damn right though, they know exactly what is happening. These dealers should not be screwing people over for their mistakes.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by ermax

Wow that is interesting. Do you have a link to this updated version? The instructions I am looking at are from 12/20. You are damn right though, they know exactly what is happening. These dealers should not be screwing people over for their mistakes.

This is the 2/13 document.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...8V772-6522.pdf

All the documents are here, .gov site.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...72&docType=RCL

[ermax]

Originally Posted by maslin

This is the 2/13 document.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...8V772-6522.pdf

All the documents are here, .gov site.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/c...72&docType=RCL

Interesting. Subaru's instructions are entirely different from Toyota's. They aren't even using the same tools for installing the springs. Edit: Nevermind, these instructions cover two different engines. The FA portion of the instructions use the same tools as the Toyota instructions.

These are the Toyota instructions I have been looking at:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uUi..._dVLZl_w7/view

[msaikhan]

Originally Posted by ermax

I would love to know what bearing number is failing too. There is a oil gallery near the edge of the timing cover that feeds the heads. The RH block is feed through the heads and the LH block is feed direct. So if that one oil gallery was blocked it would potentially starve the RH block. I can't recall which rods are feed by the RH block though. When I get home tonight I will look at my old block and crank to find out. My bet is that most of the rod failures will be the ones feed by the RH block and could be due to that oil gallery in the timing cover being blocked.



Edit: Scratch that. I looked at my block and all bearings (mains and rods) are feed via the LH block which is a direct feed from the pump with packing no where in sight. The chart actually shows that I just didn’t read it correctly. The only thing I can see going wrong due to the recall is packing in the pickup either from excessive packing breaking off or debris from the clean up. If they blocked the gallery in the timing cover that I was referring to it would actually just divert more pressure to the bearings. My block had packing blocking one of the returns from the heads but this packing isn’t touched on the recall.

So now I’m curious if they aren’t using the correct Threebond and it breaks away easier than the correct stuff or maybe they are throwing oil in it and starting it before it cures. I forget what the cure time was on the Threebond. I didn’t put oil back in mine for days because I just didn’t have time to work on the project.

What a mess this whole recall is. I feel really bad for everyone getting screwed by the dealers.

I am hearing a knock on driver side ( left side of engine) on cold start ups, but not a constant knock. No check engine light either yet.

[msaikhan]

Originally Posted by venenon

The dealer that did my service recommended I call the Toyota Experience hotline at 1-800-331-4331. I spoke with Jeff who advised me to take my car to another shop for a second opinion and continue to press the issue. Here we go.

I took mine to a 2nd shop only for diagnoses, not a toyota dealer though. They said rod knock on cold star and goes away once warmed up. But the original dealer who f***d up, said they are not going to reimburse me for inspection fee because i took it to another shop.
But they are going to inspect it again, been to this dealer 3 times in a week already.

[maslin]

Originally Posted by ermax

Interesting. Subaru's instructions are entirely different from Toyota's. They aren't even using the same tools for installing the springs.

These are the Toyota instructions I have been looking at:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uUi..._dVLZl_w7/view

That’s what I don’t understand. You would expect the tools and procedure to be the same. Maybe they’re trying to use Toyota tools the dealer might already have, while the Subaru dealer has the actual tools for working on boxer engines?

I hope the techs are reading all the documents available. Any additional information you have before diving in to a project like this helps.

[msaikhan]

Originally Posted by maslin

Those photos show a lot sealant. The instructions specify bead widths, they are substantially larger than I’m used to, guess that Japanese machining isn’t as exact as the Germans.

They’ve been updating the procedure, looks like 2/13 is the most recent. I like this part. Those pictures aren’t fake, they know exactly what’s happening.

Page 31 of the 2/13 update is pretty good too. Lots of yellow highlighter and bold “carefully”. I think they found the problem. Their technicians.

is there Toyota version of this?

[ermax]

Originally Posted by maslin

That’s what I don’t understand. You would expect the tools and procedure to be the same. Maybe they’re trying to use Toyota tools the dealer might already have, while the Subaru dealer has the actual tools for working on boxer engines?

I hope the techs are reading all the documents available. Any additional information you have before diving in to a project like this helps.

I edited my post above. The instructions you linked to cover the FA and FB. I didn't notice that at first. The part of the instructions talking about the FA20 are using the same tools as Toyota.

[ermax]

Originally Posted by msaikhan

I took mine to a 2nd shop, not a toyota dealer though. They said rod knock on cold star and goes away once warmed up. But the original dealer who f***d up, said they are not going to reimburse me because i took it to another shop. But they are going to inspect it again, been to this dealer 3 times in a week already.

You shouldn't have rod not at cold start either. Typically when a bearing is on it's way out it will knock at cold start but that is just a sign that a total failure is right around the corner.

So the original dealer isn't going to cover their faulty work because you had another shop look at it? Did the other shop actually touch the car or just look at it? Man any excuse to get off the hook.

[N234]

Originally Posted by ermax

You shouldn't have rod not at cold start either. Typically when a bearing is on it's way out it will knock at cold start but that is just a sign that a total failure is right around the corner.



So the original dealer isn't going to cover their faulty work because you had another shop look at it? Did the other shop actually touch the car or just look at it? Man any excuse to get off the hook.

The Toyota Experience. I hate dealerships. Toyota is great. Dealerships are nasty.

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[msaikhan]

Originally Posted by ermax

You shouldn't have rod not at cold start either. Typically when a bearing is on it's way out it will knock at cold start but that is just a sign that a total failure is right around the corner.

So the original dealer isn't going to cover their faulty work because you had another shop look at it? Did the other shop actually touch the car or just look at it? Man any excuse to get off the hook.

I have appointment set up after like 50+ calls to manager and service manager with the original dealer. (Total d**ks) They are going to "look" at it, but not going to reimburse the inspection fee at 2nd shop.(110$)
2nd shop didn't touch anything, only listened and inspected externally.