We Ask Toyota & Subaru about James May's Claim that Toyota Gets 90% of GT 86/FR-S/BRZ

[regal]

Originally Posted by Jegan_V

Finding the actual breakdown will probably remain unknown until the car ceases production. As for there being more Toyotas than Subarus, yes this is the case. As to why, its very likely down to scale, Toyota is a much larger automaker and has a way bigger dealer network than Subaru does. Allocating more cars to Toyota as a result makes more sense. Currently for North America based on sales its roughly a 2:1 ratio between FR-S and BRZ.

Subaru is soon to have a larger dealer network than Scion. Plus they sell a lot more cars than Scion.

I think when/if the contract gets renegotiated in 2015 there will be a big split in the direction of the car. Toyota keeps talking Hybrid and CRZ stupid stuff, while Subaru has already developed their FA20T with in-house DI (they don't need Toyota at all).

With the competition from the genesis, new mustang, new Miata, gt-86, frs Subaru is going to go for the jugular now that they know the BRZ doesn't cannibalize WRX sales.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by regal

With the competition from the genesis, new mustang, new Miata, gt-86, frs Subaru is going to go for the jugular now that they know the BRZ doesn't cannibalize WRX sales.

I believe a turbo version would cannibalize WRX sales unless it is priced much higher. I do not think they will produce one but I guess we will have to wait and see.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Rampage

I believe a turbo version would cannibalize WRX sales unless it is priced much higher. I do not think they will produce one but I guess we will have to wait and see.

The BRZ sells in different areas than the WRX. When the BRZ was selling really hot it was not selling in the north where people wanted the awd WRX.

Once the novelty where's off I think the WRX and the BRZ are different enough to not compete for sales, the BRZ will never be as fast in a straight line as the WRX because of hook-up. Plus they won't tune the FA20T to have as much HP as the WRX.

[(fr-s)]

Originally Posted by regal

The BRZ sells in different areas than the WRX. When the BRZ was selling really hot it was not selling in the north where people wanted the awd WRX.

Once the novelty where's off I think the WRX and the BRZ are different enough to not compete for sales, the BRZ will never be as fast in a straight line as the WRX because of hook-up. Plus they won't tune the FA20T to have as much HP as the WRX.

Yeah, I mean RWD coupe and AWD sedan sedan sounds pretty different to me. They are both fun cars that are made by the same company. Aside from that they're different and attract different buyers.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

Subaru is soon to have a larger dealer network than Scion. Plus they sell a lot more cars than Scion.

I think when/if the contract gets renegotiated in 2015 there will be a big split in the direction of the car. Toyota keeps talking Hybrid and CRZ stupid stuff, while Subaru has already developed their FA20T with in-house DI (they don't need Toyota at all).

With the competition from the genesis, new mustang, new Miata, gt-86, frs Subaru is going to go for the jugular now that they know the BRZ doesn't cannibalize WRX sales.

Every scion dealer I have seen is attached/shared to a Toyota dealership. There are way more Toyota dealerships than sube.. It's easy for scion to setup shop in already existing facilities.. Lower overhead for scion, better brand recognition.. Your claiming the demise of scion all the time makes no sense since they piggyback off toyotas existing empire and facilities..

[FRiSson]

If you read between the lines it is pretty clear that Subaru is not very interested in the BRZ. It is not a great fit with their lineup and will compete with the new WRX. I think Subaru is a proud company and is more committed to vehicles that it both designs and builds.

[CAMBAM_6]

Sounds very dead on if you ask me...go to any meet and FRS will outnumber BRZ 9 to 1...lol..we are suprised if a BRZ even shows up to half of our smaller meets.

I think Subaru figured either way they would sell less units then the FRS anyway so they agreed to whatever Toyota's terms were.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

Your claiming the demise of scion all the time makes no sense since they piggyback off toyotas existing empire and facilities..

I'm not claiming the demise of Scion "all the time" and I'm not the one closing half their dealerships (that would be the Toyota board of directors.)

A bunch of Toyota dealerships with a Scion sign and a few square feet saved for Scions doesn't compete in anyway to Subaru brick and motor dealerships that sell ~300k cars a year domestically. I have no personal feelings toward Scion other than hoping they can survive but the facts are the facts, sorry if it brings out defensiveness.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by regal

I'm not claiming the demise of Scion "all the time" and I'm not the one closing half their dealerships (that would be the Toyota board of directors.)

A bunch of Toyota dealerships with a Scion sign and a few square feet saved for Scions doesn't compete in anyway to Subaru brick and motor dealerships that sell ~300k cars a year domestically. I have no personal feelings toward Scion other than hoping they can survive but the facts are the facts, sorry if it brings out defensiveness.

just consider scion another toyota car.. they do.
the dealership hangs a sign that says scion in an existing toyota dealership.. they allocate some space. Done!
and your thinking of it as another dealership.. its not.. they wanted brand recognition to attract new buyers..
my 1st scion was a 05 xB. it was made by Daihatsu with a toyota motor.. . Now the FRS its mostly made by sube with toy parts.. same thing..
nothing like Lexus that has its own everything and doesnt want the association with its lesser cars..
sube sells squat comapred to toyota. which also owns a good part of FHI. Scion isnt competing with sube..
its competing with itself, toyota to get the younger crowd excited..
and who says their closing dealerships? did you read another post? cause nothing turns up on google about it..

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by regal

The BRZ sells in different areas than the WRX. When the BRZ was selling really hot it was not selling in the north where people wanted the awd WRX.

Once the novelty where's off I think the WRX and the BRZ are different enough to not compete for sales, the BRZ will never be as fast in a straight line as the WRX because of hook-up. Plus they won't tune the FA20T to have as much HP as the WRX.

Originally Posted by (fr-s)

Yeah, I mean RWD coupe and AWD sedan sedan sounds pretty different to me. They are both fun cars that are made by the same company. Aside from that they're different and attract different buyers.

Despite the fact the the chassis are very different the WRX and the BRZ do pull from the same demographic. Look at both this forum and the WRX forums. The majority of buyers are the male, 20-30 something, wannabe hot shoe types. A factory turbo will just make the BRZ even more attractive to them. I just do not see the incentive for Subaru to turbo the car and they have said many times that they won't. But again we will just have to wait and see what happens in the next couple of years.

By the way, No disrespect intended for the hotshoe wannabees or boyracer types. I am one myself but much older than the norm here.