Poll: Who here double clutches?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by paulca

I never have an issue getting into 1st. Where I live I turn off a road into a tight private parking area and it's 1st gear stuff, so I regularly blip it into 1st as I brake before turning in at crica 20-25mph. Never have an issue.

Are you finding the first gear syncro is very tight? I've had that on other cars, thought it was to prevent accidentally shifting into 1st while moving, neither GTs I have owned have been an issue.

I don't know why but the transmissions vary dramatically from on to the next. There is a pretty big crowd of us in the Portland metro area and we've all driven each other's cars. Some easily drop into first on a roll. Just as many are like mine which fight you unless you double-clutch. Yes, there is a limit mechanism. I've seen a vague reference to it in the service manual but I don't know how it works.

I double-clutch into first countless times a day because I commute in stop-&-go traffic and refuse to lug an engine.

[empower-auto]

I've driven no less than 15 of these cars from 2012 to 2017 and never in my life would I double clutch. What is this ricer nonsense?

edit: "double clutching" in stop and go traffic does not count. it's a by product of the situation .. not a driving strategy

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by STV3

Soooo I am probably super late to the game..... but is this guy gforce?

Nope.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I don't know why but the transmissions vary dramatically from on to the next. There is a pretty big crowd of us in the Portland metro area and we've all driven each other's cars. Some easily drop into first on a roll. Just as many are like mine which fight you unless you double-clutch. Yes, there is a limit mechanism. I've seen a vague reference to it in the service manual but I don't know how it works.

I double-clutch into first countless times a day because I commute in stop-&-go traffic and refuse to lug an engine.

?
Is there a year range that you guys have tried? And have you tried the 17s?

There might be a fix for it like new fluid or a bad syncro.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Zentec

?
Is there a year range that you guys have tried? And have you tried the 17s?

There might be a fix for it like new fluid or a bad syncro.

There's nothing wrong with the transmissions. I personally have two of them. I say "I don't know why" because I don't know exactly which parts differ and exactly how those differences affect operation. Bottom line, though, is it comes down to manufacturing tolerances and how the build process compensates for them.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by wparsons

This:



I only double clutch a downshift to get into first when rolling. Typically only a problem in an autox, I've probably done it 10 times in over 5 years with the car.

This makes no sense at all. Into first when rolling and in an autoX? Why would you ever be rolling anyway?

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by TommyW

This makes no sense at all. Into first when rolling and in an autoX? Why would you ever be rolling anyway?

Rolling because it's midway through a run and a corner too slow for 2nd gear...

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by Zentec

If your in autox and your slowing down to get into first you can heel toe blip to rev match and get in to first with out double clutching. From my experience you spend most of your time in second and third in autox than 1st but it depends on what your doing to.

I find that doesn't work if you want a quick downshift unless you're going slower. Some corners are just too slow for 2nd if you want any punch out of them. Not common, but it happens.

Originally Posted by Zentec

To everyone
Improve your shifting by proper rev matching and heel and toe (because each gear has a certain ratio go learn how transmittions and clutches work first) . If you want to destroy your car keep double clutching or do what you see or hear in movies because it sound cool or what ever. In the end it's your car do what you want. Just don't come post help my clutch or transmission problems and forget to include in your post you don't know how to drive a MT properly and you were double clutching the whole time.

I'd love to hear how you think that double clutching will harm the car in any way... but I have a feeling you don't actually know how transmissions/drivetrains work based on that statement.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

There's nothing wrong with the transmissions. I personally have two of them. I say "I don't know why" because I don't know exactly which parts differ and exactly how those differences affect operation. Bottom line, though, is it comes down to manufacturing tolerances and how the build process compensates for them.

I ment range like so many people have 13 year model and so many had 15 or 16s. I was trying to see if this was only a problem for a certain year model In 17s they increased the final drive. I also know that there are 3 syncros for gears 1-3.

Yes tolerances have a lot to do with it as well you are correct. It's still hard to believe so many people have this problem.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Zentec

I ment range like so many people have 13 year model and so many had 15 or 16s. I was trying to see if this was only a problem for a certain year model In 17s they increased the final drive. I also know that there are 3 syncros for gears 1-3.

Yes tolerances have a lot to do with it as well you are correct. It's still hard to believe so many people have this problem.

With respect to first gear, it's not a problem. It works as designed... except for those who can easily shift into first above 10 mph. Then the lockout is sloppy. My beater transmission is looser than my original. I can comfortably downshift to first without double-clutching up to maybe 8 mph.

I haven't noticed correlation to model year but most of us have 13s. I can't really speak to newer ones.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by wparsons

I find that doesn't work if you want a quick downshift unless you're going slower. Some corners are just too slow for 2nd if you want any punch out of them. Not common, but it happens.



I'd love to hear how you think that double clutching will harm the car in any way... but I have a feeling you don't actually know how transmissions/drivetrains work based on that statement.

Sure double clutching you are using the clutch twice as much so in the long term yes you will wear out the clutch faster as you are using it 2 times as more per gear shift.

Your forgetting one major point that's syncros the job of the syncro is match the speed of the collar so that is is close to the same speed as the gear so your mass is rotating at the same speed so when the gear is changed and the clutch engages when you let it out your in that gear. With out syncros that is the purpos of double clutching to match the rotating mass and the collar to the gear that you are going in to.

Each one of your gears has a ratio for putting torque to the differential. First gear is the highest and you are putting the most trq the differential. Your last gear the smallest will keep you balenced at low rpm so when your crusing so you will have less trq going to it. Trq gets you going horsepower keeps you going.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Zentec

Sure double clutching you are using the clutch twice as much so in the long term yes you will wear out the clutch faster as you are using it 2 times as more per gear shift.

In the double clutch, relative to starting from a standstill, there is virtually no load on it. It doesn't wear the actual clutch for shit.

What it does wear on this car is the bullshit aluminum input shaft cover but that's only one of a few flaws in the design of the whole clutch operating mechanism.

[Zentec]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

In the double clutch, relative to starting from a standstill, there is virtually no load on it. It doesn't wear the actual clutch for shit.

What it does wear on this car is the bullshit aluminum input shaft cover but that's only one of a few flaws in the design of the whole clutch operating mechanism.

And double clutching is pointless.

Lets look at it logically shall we?

On a normal shift the clutch disengages the trans once and re-engages it once. Double clutching, instead of having two points of friction (release/engage) has 4 points of friction (release/engage/release/engage).

Logically speaking, which of these would cause more wear?

I would imagine that since there are 4 points of friction that more heat would be generated, therefore actually wearing out the clutch FASTER.

You are also using your throw out bearing more so that will also wear out faster.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Zentec

And double clutching is pointless.

Lets look at it logically shall we?

On a normal shift the clutch disengages the trans once and re-engages it once. Double clutching, instead of having two points of friction (release/engage) has 4 points of friction (release/engage/release/engage).

Logically speaking, which of these would cause more wear?

I would imagine that since there are 4 points of friction that more heat would be generated, therefore actually wearing out the clutch FASTER.

You are also using your throw out bearing more so that will also wear out faster.

On top of tossing in an insulting jab about double clutching being pointless you've ignored my point. How much torque do you think it takes to spool the gears while it's in neutral? Rhetorical question. I'm finished here.