Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[ZionsWrath]

!!^&!@#

Someone just smashed my right rear quarter, wheel, and bumper as I went to get gas in town next to the track.

Anyone know how long it will take to have a quarter panel replace? My next event is 5 weeks out so I'm hopeful but not gonna hold my breath

What should I look for in the rear suspension as far as damage. Car seems to drive fine maybe a slight pull to the right.

How does insurance deal with aftermarket wheels? My brand new PF01 is fucked up. Not bend but rashed bad.

[jjaisli]

That sucks, sorry to hear that. Insurance could go either way and it really depends on your local agent.

[nlowell]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

!!^&!@#

Someone just smashed my right rear quarter, wheel, and bumper as I went to get gas in town next to the track.

Anyone know how long it will take to have a quarter panel replace? My next event is 5 weeks out so I'm hopeful but not gonna hold my breath

What should I look for in the rear suspension as far as damage. Car seems to drive fine maybe a slight pull to the right.

How does insurance deal with aftermarket wheels? My brand new PF01 is fucked up. Not bend but rashed bad.

If the aftermarket wheel is similar or cheaper in price than a new OE wheel then you should be fine as you have a good argument. If it's more expensive then they might ask you to pay. In that case it depends on how good your negotiation skills are

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

!!^&!@#

Someone just smashed my right rear quarter, wheel, and bumper as I went to get gas in town next to the track.

Sorry to hear about that - not a good day at the track. Was this at New Jersey?

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Sorry to hear about that - not a good day at the track. Was this at New Jersey?

watkins glen, im still here drinking in my hotel room :\

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

!!^&!@#

Someone just smashed my right rear quarter, wheel, and bumper as I went to get gas in town next to the track.

Anyone know how long it will take to have a quarter panel replace? My next event is 5 weeks out so I'm hopeful but not gonna hold my breath

What should I look for in the rear suspension as far as damage. Car seems to drive fine maybe a slight pull to the right.

How does insurance deal with aftermarket wheels? My brand new PF01 is fucked up. Not bend but rashed bad.

I am not a lawyer, but my understanding, and this is not from experience but simply what I have read, is that if the other party is at fault then it is their responsibility to make you whole. Generally this means the other person's insurance must cover the damages and make your property in the same state as it was previously. If they don't then you can sue them. This means that they must either repair your damaged quarter panel and rim or replace them (and the repair must be to original specifications of the part). For example, if you have $10,000 in rims on a $500 car and someone destroys everything then the person (and their insurance) must fix it. They are liable for the full $10500 in value. I am not sure how depreciation works on specific value parts (ie. aftermarket, I am not sure the technical term).

Now if it was your fault things are much more complex. You insured your car for some value and, save for some common wording to cover limited aftermarket parts like car stereos, the insurance company is not going to cover costs that are not part of that coverage.

That all said, they will probably try and weasel out of as much as they can, it is the insurance company's interest to do so.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ja1217

I was wondering if you could take a quick look at some data for me.

This weekend I was in time trials with NASA Mid Atlantic at Summit Point Main. I ended up coming in second place in my class but I was off the pace of 1st by just about 2 seconds. Now, the guy who came in first did set a new track record, but I feel like I shouldn't be this far off the pace. I'm trying to figure out how much of this gap is due to driver skill vs car. My car (13 FR-S) has Ohlins R&T suspension, Essex AP Sprint BBK, DSS CF Driveshaft and ACT Pro Lite Clutch. Other than a tune from Delicious and a drop in K&N filter the rest of powertrain is stock and I am competing on 225/45R17 Hoosier R6's. Last week I dyno'd at 184.5whp (dynojet) and my race weight is about 2900 lbs. (driver included). The guy who came in first place drives an E36 M3 that I think dyno'd aroud 205whp and weighs a bit over 3200 lbs and he runs on 225/40R17 R6's.

Given that our power to weight ratios are very close and we are running on roughly the same tires I would not have thought that there would be such a large gap between us. Looking at the data (which my competitor kindly sent me a copy of his) to my untrained eye I seem to doing what I can to take advantage of my lighter weight by braking later and carrying more speed through most of the turns (I could improve on turn 3), but it seems to me like his car simply overpowered mine coming out of the turns. Its quite possible that I'm over driving the car by being too aggressive entering corners and compromising my exits, but I'm just not experienced enough looking at the data to be sure. I did notice that I seem to be getting a fair amount of inside wheel slip in a lot of the corners (at one point my inside rear wheel was going 10mph more than the outside in turn 9) so I'm sure thats not helping my corner exits either. I think a clutch type LSD will probably on my list of things to do for next year.

Any way, I'd really appreciate it if you could take a quick look at my data. I'm going to be up against the same driver in October at VIR and would like to give him more of a run for his money than I could at Summit.

(I am the red line in this image)


Here's the video of my fastest session:

Data:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz6...it?usp=sharing

Thanks!

Even with similar power/weight, he's got a TON more area under the curve than you are.

Do you have an oil cooler?

Also based *purely* on the GPS traces, this looks suspiciously like what happens when I compare my data to @ImperiousRex's data in the same car: he brakes earlier, enters the turns slower, but more composed, and gets on the gas earlier.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by AZP Installs

Did you run in TTD?

Blue e36 of Marc cantor?

Yeah rumor has it that isn't a TTD car. I run against him in NE and can't get closer than 3-4 secs. Albeit my car is stock except for tires and pads.

Mike

Yeah, its Marc. He's a good guy and I don't really think he's cheating. He got a dyno re-class recently, which freed up the 7 points that the E36 M3 starts with, letting him run Hoosiers. He's going to nationals in September, so I'm sure he'll be compliance checked several times. I was like 3 seconds off his pace at NJMP Thunderbolt, but I think my gap there was more down to lack of track experience since it was my first time there.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Even with similar power/weight, he's got a TON more area under the curve than you are.

Do you have an oil cooler?

This is what I was thinking too.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Even with similar power/weight, he's got a TON more area under the curve than you are.

Do you have an oil cooler?

Also based *purely* on the GPS traces, this looks suspiciously like what happens when I compare my data to @ImperiousRex's data in the same car: he brakes earlier, enters the turns slower, but more composed, and gets on the gas earlier.

Yes, I have an oil cooler. This was actually my first event with it installed and it worked great. Oil temps stayed below 235 or so.

I really wish the other guy had a Solo DL that would work with his car. It would be really interesting to see how his throttle work compares to mine in the turns. I may play around with my suspension settings a bit to see if I can let myself get on the throttle earlier as I don't seem to have much understeer yet. Running 4 clicks from full stiff up front and 5 in the back.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ja1217

Here's the video of my fastest session:

Data:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bz6...it?usp=sharing

Thanks!

Ok, here's my thoughts after watching your video. Your car suffers from the same thing I see with a lot of cars that use the Ohlins R&T: you're fighting understeer at turn-in.

Watch your turn-ins on the lower speed corners, and you'll see yourself sawing at the steering, and "ratcheting" your input. You need to slow down your rate of input, turn in earlier, and use one larger constant input. Use the pedal dance and trail brake into the turn, so that you can get a bit more rotation out of the car, so that you can get on the throttle earlier. A rear sway or stiffer rear springs will probably help here (although the Ohlins are not designed for a rear spring change). Alternatively, using a 1.5 or 2 way LSD to force rotation on corner entry will work as well.

This understeer on turn-in results in a car that is REALLY easy to power out of corners with; this effect is caused by a few things. The car has a static bias toward understeer, so even under power, the front gives out first unless something really upsets the balance of the car. The car also is more stable under powering out because the entry and mid corner speeds are slower, because you need to scrub off more momentum to make the entry to begin with.

Your throttle inputs mid-corner are not committed. Slowly squeeze the throttle, and don't commit unless you know you're not going to lift. Skidpad exercises with a loose rear will help your confidence here.

As for line, I don't know the track, as I've never driven it, and the elevation/camber/bumps aren't too apparent in the video, but I'd be driving a different line based on what I can tell (but again, this could be wrong).

- Turn 1 - I'd brake ~60 feet earlier, trail brake into the corner, and be WOT post-apex before the track out.

- Turn 2 - you stab at the brakes pretty hard. My data traces never show brake psi getting that high

- Turn 3 - you should be flat here; you can sacrifice the entry into the next corner

- Turn 4 - I'd only track out enough to be able to en turn 5 all the way from the left

- Turn 5 - I'd single apex it; your car has the grip to do it.

Turns 6-8 - Looks solid. Maybe smoother on the brakes through 8, and more throttle commitment, with less sawing.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ja1217

Yeah, its Marc. He's a good guy and I don't really think he's cheating. He got a dyno re-class recently, which freed up the 7 points that the E36 M3 starts with, letting him run Hoosiers. He's going to nationals in September, so I'm sure he'll be compliance checked several times. I was like 3 seconds off his pace at NJMP Thunderbolt, but I think my gap there was more down to lack of track experience since it was my first time there.

7mph in that straight is a huge discrepancy. I'd attribute it to a better area under the curve. Remember, NASA classes by P/W, without AUC restrictions, so his car could be making 205whp for a 3000 RPM range (and yes, this is TOTALLY doable on a E36 M3), whereas you make your peak for just a moment.

Robispec and I speculated that on a NA car with hoosiers, 205 on 7.5" rims is probably fastest.

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Ok, here's my thoughts after watching your video. Your car suffers from the same thing I see with a lot of cars that use the Ohlins R&T: you're fighting understeer at turn-in.

Watch your turn-ins on the lower speed corners, and you'll see yourself sawing at the steering, and "ratcheting" your input. You need to slow down your rate of input, turn in earlier, and use one larger constant input. Use the pedal dance and trail brake into the turn, so that you can get a bit more rotation out of the car, so that you can get on the throttle earlier. A rear sway or stiffer rear springs will probably help here (although the Ohlins are not designed for a rear spring change). Alternatively, using a 1.5 or 2 way LSD to force rotation on corner entry will work as well.

This understeer on turn-in results in a car that is REALLY easy to power out of corners with; this effect is caused by a few things. The car has a static bias toward understeer, so even under power, the front gives out first unless something really upsets the balance of the car. The car also is more stable under powering out because the entry and mid corner speeds are slower, because you need to scrub off more momentum to make the entry to begin with.

Your throttle inputs mid-corner are not committed. Slowly squeeze the throttle, and don't commit unless you know you're not going to lift. Skidpad exercises with a loose rear will help your confidence here.

As for line, I don't know the track, as I've never driven it, and the elevation/camber/bumps aren't too apparent in the video, but I'd be driving a different line based on what I can tell (but again, this could be wrong).

- Turn 1 - I'd brake ~60 feet earlier, trail brake into the corner, and be WOT post-apex before the track out.

- Turn 2 - you stab at the brakes pretty hard. My data traces never show brake psi getting that high

- Turn 3 - you should be flat here; you can sacrifice the entry into the next corner

- Turn 4 - I'd only track out enough to be able to en turn 5 all the way from the left

- Turn 5 - I'd single apex it; your car has the grip to do it.

Turns 6-8 - Looks solid. Maybe smoother on the brakes through 8, and more throttle commitment, with less sawing.

Definitely agree with you on the understeer at turn in into slower corners from too abrupt inputs, my early days in autocross probably didn't help. I'll need to work on being more committed on the throttle mid corner, although smoothing my inputs on entry will probably make that easier.



Turn 2 (3 in track map) - Yeah, I was really trying to brake as late and hard as possible there, which probably wasn't the best way to go about the turn

Turn 3 (4 in track map) - That will take some serious cajones to stay flat through there, but I'll build up to it and give it a try. I went a bit faster through there earlier (101-103 the whole way through the turn) but the car was a bit unsettled when I went to go on the brakes and I couldn't quite get it slowed down in time and ended up going a bit off track. See

Turn 5 (6-7 on track map?) - Did you mean 6-7 on the track map? If so, by single apexing do you mean staying tight to the inside the whole way though the turn or do you mean ignore the exit apex?

[ja1217]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

7mph in that straight is a huge discrepancy. I'd attribute it to a better area under the curve. Remember, NASA classes by P/W, without AUC restrictions, so his car could be making 205whp for a 3000 RPM range (and yes, this is TOTALLY doable on a E36 M3), whereas you make your peak for just a moment.

Robispec and I speculated that on a NA car with hoosiers, 205 on 7.5" rims is probably fastest.

I should ask him to send me a copy of his dyno graph, it would be interesting to see how it compares to mine:


Also, that is a very interesting theory about the hoosier sizes. Do you guys think that the lower rolling resistance makes up for the lack of grip from the extra width? Maybe next year I should compromise and run a 215, which would also give me enough points back to go full exhaust, which in turn should put me pretty close to the power/weight ratio for TTD.