MAF Scaling - Open/Closed Loop Fueling info

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by s2d4

You seem to be mistaken, fuel system status will let you know if you are in CL or OL.

*sigh*

To use the existing tools you need to divide logs into OL and CL and do different things with each. I haven't used the Java one, but from what I've read you still need to separate the logs.

My idea would take any logs, with a mix of OL and CL and do all the work for you. You could in theory have one log that is an hour long with half a dozen WOT pulls and a bunch of mixed driving, or 10 logs with 5 minutes of mixed driving each, plus WOT logs, etc.

To use raw logs like that now you need to manipulate them in excel (including the time stamp column).

I'm not saying the app I was thinking of making would fundamentally change the underlying logic, it would basically just do both OL and CL at the same time from one or more log. It could also be written to include validation on how "good" the logs are, etc.

[jamesm]

Originally Posted by wparsons

*sigh*

To use the existing tools you need to divide logs into OL and CL and do different things with each. I haven't used the Java one, but from what I've read you still need to separate the logs.

My idea would take any logs, with a mix of OL and CL and do all the work for you. You could in theory have one log that is an hour long with half a dozen WOT pulls and a bunch of mixed driving, or 10 logs with 5 minutes of mixed driving each, plus WOT logs, etc.

To use raw logs like that now you need to manipulate them in excel (including the time stamp column).

I'm not saying the app I was thinking of making would fundamentally change the underlying logic, it would basically just do both OL and CL at the same time from one or more log. It could also be written to include validation on how "good" the logs are, etc.

Realistically the entire process of tuning a car (in terms of base calibration) is entirely deterministic and much better suited to a computer than a human being. I've worked on ruby scripts in the past that do exactly what you speak of, but have never had time to clean them up and test them extensively due to actually having to tune cars all the time . One of these days i'll get around to it.

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by wparsons

*sigh*

To use the existing tools you need to divide logs into OL and CL and do different things with each. I haven't used the Java one, but from what I've read you still need to separate the logs.

My idea would take any logs, with a mix of OL and CL and do all the work for you. You could in theory have one log that is an hour long with half a dozen WOT pulls and a bunch of mixed driving, or 10 logs with 5 minutes of mixed driving each, plus WOT logs, etc.

To use raw logs like that now you need to manipulate them in excel (including the time stamp column).

I'm not saying the app I was thinking of making would fundamentally change the underlying logic, it would basically just do both OL and CL at the same time from one or more log. It could also be written to include validation on how "good" the logs are, etc.

I see, maybe vgi can make it happen if he feels like it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

[Victor Draken]

So is vgi application enough for maf scaling? Does it mean i could install a Perrin CAI 3" or any other intake and use the apps to scale the maf sensor?

For someone using OFT tunes is it a good idea to rescale the maf just to have a more accurate maf table specific to my own car?

(I'm asking these question because my car run slightly on the rich side at wot, low 11)

[steve99]

Originally Posted by Victor Draken

So is vgi application enough for maf scaling? Does it mean i could install a Perrin CAI 3" or any other intake and use the apps to scale the maf sensor?

Yeah you could but perrin supply maf scales for their intakes and that would be a much better place to start from

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ghlight=perrin

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by vgi

sure, ask me away. but first i'd suggest reading on usage and if it doesn't say anything - actually trying out what you want 'to do' before posting. now if you have tried it and it doesn't work - i'll definitely add any useful new feature

Ummm OK.... I think you just had a go at me over nothing.
Your tools looks to be the best yet as I had scaled my MAF using other less polished tools, haven't actually tried because I have not been home.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by vgi

i love people like you:
just sit on your butt, *sighing*, talking about great ideas you have and how you would do this and that and how great it would be, and how no one else has thought about it without even looking around at what's available.

Hold the train right there... I wasn't knocking your tool in any way, if you read an earlier post you'll even see that my issue is finding a time/place to get the needed logs in the right format.

The desire to build the app like I want it is to suit my personal laziness around manually manipulating logs, not because the existing tools won't work. If I can import half a dozen mixed logs and have it sort it all out without me needing to edit anything in excel it not only takes out some potential for human error, it also makes it simpler to test and use.

The *sigh* was because the post it quoted was taken out of context for what I wanted to do with my app, not a reflection on the current tools.

[phrosty]

Before i knew of vgi's app I made my own to do closed-loop scaling from multiple OFT logs at once. It's console-only but if you're interested and know C# I could share the code. I was going to throw it up as a web app eventually -- maybe we can work together.

[wparsons]

C# is what I do, porting to a web app would be trivial!

[Kodename47]

The java tool does not need to have different logs for OL and CL. I use the same one for both.

I'm not sure if it can add multiple logs, I'm not sure it would be hard to get it to do that though.

Adding my MAF rescale tool here too:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20Rescale.xlsx

[solidONE]

Who else here has found the temperature compensation for the fueling is off by a good amount. While logging with about 90-95 degrees IAT's vs. 70-75* IAT's I found that fuel trims can vary about 4-5% for any given MAF voltage. Anyone else notice this? Fuel trim go up in hotter temps but get trimmed back in lower temps, it seems.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by solidONE

Who else here has found the temperature compensation for the fueling is off by a good amount. While logging with about 90-95 degrees IAT's vs. 70-75* IAT's I found that fuel trims can vary about 4-5% for any given MAF voltage. Anyone else notice this? Fuel trim go up in hotter temps but get trimmed back in lower temps, it seems.

Yes noticed similar mostly at idle where iat climhs in traffic fuel trim in lower band moves 4 to5 percent however need to look at if the temp comp is for sensor error at differnt temps or ita actually to compensate for the density change in the air.

the sensor is trying to measure mass of air colder air more dense so it most likely needs to add fuel so moves fuel trim positive.

not sure will have to think about it

[s2d4]

Originally Posted by vgi

though you're discussing features and making suggestions before you even poke into that proggie

I did look at it just haven't used it due to not been at home. I knew same log could be used which was what I was referring to with the fuel system status being the differentiation rather than throttle input but the other guy was so adamant so I said you can add it if you feel like it. Anyways, I will remind myself not to make any comments, thanks.

Originally Posted by steve99

the sensor is trying to measure mass of air colder air more dense so it most likely needs to add fuel so moves fuel trim positive.

Apparently it is the other way around, maybe it is adding fuel for cooling in hot weather?

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by s2d4

Apparently it is the other way around, maybe it is adding fuel for cooling in hot weather?

It looks like the computer makes too much compensation for temps in the base fueling causing the AFR to go rich in lower temps but lean in hotter temps. Once the AFR registers fueling adjustment is made via fuel trims.