Shopping for Supercharger

[KonTheory]

Ive been, almost, set on the Kraftwerks supercharger kit,
heard lots of good things about it and it looks like my goals would be obtainable with the kit,

So what Im asking, what are the differences between the Kraftwerks kit and the Jackson Racing kit..
Same supercharger, slightly different design, jackson is CARB
but is there anything that really makes one better than the other..
Im looking to buy early next year... and am considering the C38

[woode]

Let me know what you find out, I am curious; there isn't any information on this and it hasn't been asked before.

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by KonTheory

So what Im asking, what are the differences between the Kraftwerks kit and the Jackson Racing kit..
Same supercharger, slightly different design, jackson is CARB
but is there anything that really makes one better than the other..
Im looking to buy early next year... and am considering the C38

@CSG Mike may chime in here with more details on the JR kit, but I'll give you my perspective on both. I own neither kit and my BRZ is still n/a for the time being.

JR offers a full plug and play THERMOSTATIC oil cooler kit with the largest volume core. KW oil cooler kit does not have a thermostatic option (risky in the winter) and has a smaller, less efficient core.

KW kit is far more complex and will take longer to install. Their cogged belts are known to break, ironically, since the separate belt design is supposed to be better for reliability. KW SC belts have also been on back order and are hard to get spares.

JR SC kit is much simpler and has a much better track record and owners have reported ZERO issues since launch. KW owners have had various issues with missing parts, fitment, and belts breaking in customer kits and in KW's ongoing testing (they rarely show up to any tracks). JR track tested their kit extensively prior to release (and still do frequently) and put it through it's paces and released it 100% complete with no if's and's or but's, while KW were scrambling to fix their issues post-release and are STILL awaiting CARB approval.

In my opinion JR SC is the way to go since it has undergone far more testing prior to release to ensure perfect fitment, and it is a much simpler design. All the "perks" of the KW kit are just over-complexities that IMO aren't necessary to have solid results. The giant mounting bracket adds weight and complexity, as does the cogged pulley for the separate belt. It also blocks out traditional Mocal style thermostatic oil cooler sandwich plates to be used. The "cold air intake" for the KW kit just makes changing your air filter more of a pain. The JR SC intake/filter design draws air from the same location and testing data from CSG has proven that the intake air temps are still lower than stock with the JR kit. Also the intake and IC piping in the KW kit force you to replace the washer fluid tank with a much smaller one (arguably another complexity) and the JR piping allows you to retain the stock one. Some will argue the bigger intake/IC piping in the KW kit allow more airflow and power, but the dyno's tell a different story. JR chose their piping to get the amount of air velocity they wanted to achieve the results they wanted during the EXTENSIVE testing of their CARB tune which is a very safe and reliable tune for all possible conditions.

The JR kit will be upgradeable in the future and said upgrades are currently being tested (guessing a smaller pulley for the C30). The C38 blower is infamous for being tough to tune (tip in knock) and being "too big" for the engine to use effectively considering the VE limits of a stock FA20. Ask one of the experts, James Martin @ HRI tuning (on Facebook), about his experiences with it and he'll tell you the same thing.

The C30-94 in the JR kit more than capable of delivering 300whp on E85 with the included pulley and a custom tune. Add a header and full exhaust and expect even more.

Originally Posted by moto-mike

Here's some numbers from a (Jackson Racing) kit we just put in the other day with the oil cooler, blue is 93 octane, red is e50:



I have to say fitment is SUPER on this kit. It is nice to not have everything mate up perfectly from the start. Each kit might have its merits, but installing one of these is a pleasure.

KW's rep will probably come in here and raise hell so just be prepared for a shit storm in defense of the KW kit.

[wheelhaus]

^ lol The above bashing is not incorrect per-se, however it paints an unnecessarily sad picture of the KW kit. In the end, They are very very similar, the biggest difference being that they use slightly different routing for the IC piping, and JR uses the OEM belt system and KW uses a separate toothed belt. It did have some "teething" issues but I understand it's mostly worked out.

Personally I like the looks of the KW kit because the IC routing looks cleaner. The JR kit on the other hand, does seem to have a more finished final product.

In the end you'll be happy with either kit. If you want a plug-and-play setup, the JR w/CARB tune is definitely the easiest, it's a very high quality tune. If you're going custom tune, headers, etc, then either kit will be great.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

@CSG Mike may chime in here with more details on the JR kit, but I'll give you my perspective on both. I own neither kit and my BRZ is still n/a for the time being.

JR offers a full plug and play THERMOSTATIC oil cooler kit with the largest volume core. KW oil cooler kit does not have a thermostatic option (risky in the winter) and has a smaller, less efficient core.

KW kit is far more complex and will take longer to install. Their cogged belts are known to break, ironically, since the separate belt design is supposed to be better for reliability. KW SC belts have also been on back order and are hard to get spares.

JR SC kit is much simpler and has a much better track record and owners have reported ZERO issues since launch. KW owners have had various issues with missing parts, fitment, and belts breaking in customer kits and in KW's ongoing track testing. JR track tested their kit extensively prior to release and put it through it's paces and released it 100% complete with no if's and's or but's, while KW were scrambling to fix their issues post-release and are STILL awaiting CARB approval.

In my opinion JR SC is the way to go since it has undergone far more testing prior to release to ensure perfect fitment, and it is a much simpler design. All the "perks" of the KW kit are just over-complexities that IMO aren't necessary to have solid results. The giant mounting bracket adds weight and complexity, as does the cogged pulley for the separate belt. It also blocks out traditional Mocal style thermostatic oil cooler sandwich plates to be used. The "cold air intake" for the KW kit just makes changing your air filter more of a pain. The JR SC intake/filter design draws air from the same location and testing data from CSG has proven that the intake air temps are still lower than stock with the JR kit. Also the intake and IC piping in the KW kit force you to replace the washer fluid tank with a much smaller one (arguably another complexity) and the JR piping allows you to retain the stock one. Some will argue the bigger intake/IC piping in the KW kit allow more airflow and power, but the dyno's tell a different story. JR chose their piping to get the amount of air velocity they wanted to achieve the results they wanted during the EXTENSIVE testing of their CARB tune which is a very safe and reliable tune for all possible conditions.

The JR kit will be upgradeable in the future and said upgrades are currently being tested (guessing a smaller pulley for the C30). The C38 blower is infamous for being tough to tune (tip in knock) and being "too big" for the engine to use effectively considering the VE limits of a stock FA20. Ask one of the experts, James Martin @ HRI tuning (on Facebook), about his experiences with it and he'll tell you the same thing.

The C30-94 in the JR kit more than capable of delivering 300whp on E85 with the included pulley and a custom tune. Add a header and full exhaust and expect even more.








KW's rep will probably come in here and raise hell so just be prepared for a shit storm in defense of the KW kit.

wow..don't you think maybe (just maybe) your review may sound a bit biased and fanboy-ish ? especially when you have no personal experience with both kits

to the OP, I have been using KW kit for a while and mainly for track use and I've snapped a belt once and that was the only issue with the kit and Kraftwerks customer service was top notch and handled the issue pretty quickly even it wasn't caused by them since the previous belt shorter than the replacement belt (supplier's faulty part) ,
I have to tell you though that being able to drive home when you have a belt issue is priceless .. I don't believe the term "Zero Issues" since each aftermarket part has their issues some units have more issues than the other ..if you want zero issues I would recommend you to stay NA

recently a JR kit owner had a fire in the engine bay due to oil leak with their THERMOSTATIC oil cooler kit

in general, I think both kits are pretty good since both utilize the same type of supercharger (Rotrex) that is the most suitable FI alternative for track use no doubt.. you may also ask to the reputable tuners on this board and ask them which unit they would prefer on their car Mike from Moto-East and Bob from DriftOffice might help you answer some of your questions as well

[ATL BRZ]

Originally Posted by glamcem

recently a JR kit owner had a fire in the engine bay due to oil leak with their THERMOSTATIC oil cooler kit

The shop that installed that kit forgot to install the clamps on the oil line fittings over the barbs, allowing the failure. According to one of their main distributors, CounterSpace Garage, every Jackson Racing kit ships with clamps for every line used for both the engine oil cooler and Rotrex fluid cooler. There are torque specs specified for the clamps that go on the cooler bungs.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by glamcem

to the OP, I have been using KW kit for a while and mainly for track use and I've snapped a belt once

Does losing the belt cause any damage to the supercharger or engine?

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

The shop that installed that kit forgot to install the clamps on the oil line fittings over the barbs, allowing the failure. According to one of their main distributors, CounterSpace Garage, every Jackson Racing kit ships with clamps for every line used for both the engine oil cooler and Rotrex fluid cooler. There are torque specs specified for the clamps that go on the cooler bungs.

nope, the engine oil cooler didn't come with the clamps and never mentioned in the manual or in the pictures, if you read the rest of the thread

my point is every aftermarket part (even some OEM parts) may have its shortcomings which is completely normal if you ask me..

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Does losing the belt cause any damage to the supercharger or engine?

nope, not at all ..only downside is you just feel the power loss since it becomes an NA ( ahemm.. boring)

[CSG Mike]

I'm gonna add a little clarification, since the original posts regarding the coolers was unclear, due to being made with little sleep. Every line in the rotrex cooler system comes with a clamp. The lines in the engine oil cooler system do not need clamps, as the lines constrict when they see pressure (yes, such a thing exists!)

http://aeroquipperformance.com/p-240...tml#socketless

Connecting the hose and fittings simply requires slipping the hose onto the fitting - no wrenches required! Under pressure the hose contracts to create a tight fit around the fitting.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by glamcem

nope, not at all ..only downside is you just feel the power loss since it becomes an NA ( ahemm.. boring)

I asked because one of the reasons I looked to get a BRZ over a WRX was that when a turbo craps out, it tends to take the engine with it, and I'd like to keep this car for a long time. Superchargers don't have problems like that, then?

[JoonPrime]

without reading anything above me, id say the biggest thing that stood out for me was immediate availability to upgrade.

kraftwerks reached out to me and gave me some specific key points on the advantages they personally felt, which is of course personal. But bias opinions aside, if youre looking or even thinking you might want more power later, go with KW.

Jackson has the possibility of going upgraded later, but only that; a possibility. KW is ready and ripped to go shoud you want a different pullysize blah blah.

also the independant pully system was pointed out, and after looking up more about it, sounds fanTASTIC for a DD like me. Im a worry wart and i always fear everything around me is goonna break even if im driving under 3k rpm almost 95% of the time.

With the way KW is set up, i can drive like an asshole, and the small chance my belt breaks? i can just drive myself home at a moderate speed and be safe as a cucumber.

Ive been researching for about a month+ now, you should really just msg CSG and Kraftwerks seperately, both provide excellent information to help you make a decision, it certainly helped with mine :]

[KonTheory]

Well this is quite the debate lol
For my intentions since I live up in cananada...
I will have to stick to 91/93 octane tunes since there's no e85 around
So I'm hoping for something around 280+whp on pump.. If that's obtainable I'd be happy

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by KonTheory

Well this is quite the debate lol
For my intentions since I live up in cananada...
I will have to stick to 91/93 octane tunes since there's no e85 around
So I'm hoping for something around 280+whp on pump.. If that's obtainable I'd be happy

That is not hard to achieve.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I asked because one of the reasons I looked to get a BRZ over a WRX was that when a turbo craps out, it tends to take the engine with it, and I'd like to keep this car for a long time. Superchargers don't have problems like that, then?

I personally never heard an incident about that turbo failure causing a motor failure but you may want to ask to tuners or other professionals who have a lot more experience with Subarus, I just don't want to mislead you on something I am not 100% aware of ..what I know is motor generally gives up faster than the turbos with their STI engines (notorious ringland failures)
with the new FA engines you might never have an issue with the engine though, I am not sure..I wouldn't care if I had the manufacturer warranty btw

if you plan to keep the car for a long time and don't want the associated risks of losing your engine by going FI route I think you may reconsider getting a WRX since it's OEM and backed by manufacturer warranty .. if you plan to keep the car mainly for a street use I think a WRX makes more sense since it's more fun thanks to the turbo DI engine and earlier tq delivery and AWD, more practical and most importantly it's OEM designed..



but if you want to track your car (road course/hpde ..etc) twins with a centrifugal type SC makes more sense since the car is lightweight, less tq in lower RPMS (meaning less load on our engines) with Rotrex units and less heat to fight with..

although WRX can still be tracked every once in a while , twins make more sense for extended track use and also puts more grin on my face at the track

so I think it's safe to say:

twins :

• Pros:
• More fun at the track
• less complex RWD system and better driving experience at the track
• less expensive on operating costs (tires, brakes, fluids, heat prevention elements)
• turbo is a lot more fun for DD
  
• Cons:
• less practical as a DD
• no winter/snow use
• less tq with SC is not that fun in street use

For WRX:

• Pros:
• OEM power
• easy bolt on upgrades will net you a lot more power (Stage 1 and Stage 2)
• A lot more comfort with extra space and 4 doors
• better interior, ergonomics ..etc
• AWD fun in the snow
• in general a lot more fun in the street due to the AWD, turbo
  
• Cons:
• less track ready
• heat is a bigger issue at the track( compared to even aftermarket SC)
• will eat your tires pretty quickly
• understeer is built-in even you dial your suspension

I think we should always consider the "worst case scenario" when modding our cars, yes SC is a lot safer aftermarket option but you still add about 60-65% additional power to your car ..