Ultimate DD/Track Suspension

[stoked_on_spool]

Hello FT86 Community!

I'm looking for some insight into coilovers (and accompanying components, LCA, camber plates, etc.) that will give me the best dual duty abilities. I've been spoiled now driving my bosses M4 for awhile with his very smooth KW V3 coilover kit and I'm looking for something that can rival that smoothness on the street, but something I won't outgrow taking to the track the next few years. Here's my plan for my car:

- Daily driver for the next 2-3 years (until I get a second car to DD and the BRZ becomes the dedicated street legal track car)
- I've done 3 HPDE's and am addicted
- I want a coilover kit that is as smooth or smoother than stock and am willing to pay for it (quality valving is worth the price to me)

BUT

would love for the coils to be adjustable enough for me to not "outgrow" too soon when the BRZ becomes a dedicated track car where street ride quality isn't quite as high of a priority anymore

I'm the kind of person who likes to do things right the first time. I went from stock susp to eibach springs w/ koni adjustable shocks where I am now to make sure that this BRZ is really a car I'd like to keep for a long time (which it is) so I'm looking to take the next step now. I'll be accompanying the coils with C/C plates, LCA's, etc and would love to hear from experienced people to gain some insight into setups they feel are worthy. I've heard that Ohlin's are some of the best riding coilovers, are there others that can compare in ride quality?


tl;dr Is there a magical coilover system that will ride as smooth or smoother than stock while still being a capable track worthy ride?

p.s. I've searched and found a few related threads, but if this topic has been covered enough please link me to the topic(s) and I'll close this thread so it doesn't jumble up this section. Thanks!

[GeorgeJFrick]

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=3000

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by stoked_on_spool

Hello FT86 Community!

I'm looking for some insight into coilovers (and accompanying components, LCA, camber plates, etc.) that will give me the best dual duty abilities. I've been spoiled now driving my bosses M4 for awhile with his very smooth KW V3 coilover kit and I'm looking for something that can rival that smoothness on the street, but something I won't outgrow taking to the track the next few years. Here's my plan for my car:

- Daily driver for the next 2-3 years (until I get a second car to DD and the BRZ becomes the dedicated street legal track car)
- I've done 3 HPDE's and am addicted
- I want a coilover kit that is as smooth or smoother than stock and am willing to pay for it (quality valving is worth the price to me)

BUT

would love for the coils to be adjustable enough for me to not "outgrow" too soon when the BRZ becomes a dedicated track car where street ride quality isn't quite as high of a priority anymore

I'm the kind of person who likes to do things right the first time. I went from stock susp to eibach springs w/ koni adjustable shocks where I am now to make sure that this BRZ is really a car I'd like to keep for a long time (which it is) so I'm looking to take the next step now. I'll be accompanying the coils with C/C plates, LCA's, etc and would love to hear from experienced people to gain some insight into setups they feel are worthy. I've heard that Ohlin's are some of the best riding coilovers, are there others that can compare in ride quality?


tl;dr Is there a magical coilover system that will ride as smooth or smoother than stock while still being a capable track worthy ride?

p.s. I've searched and found a few related threads, but if this topic has been covered enough please link me to the topic(s) and I'll close this thread so it doesn't jumble up this section. Thanks!

Ohlins are great coilovers. Little bit low on travel, but great valving for a street + some track driver. Not exactly dedicated track car stuff out of the box, but they can be used with custom spring rates and are revalveable. That costs more money.

If you liked KW V3s, you might also like our RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers. Based on KW Clubsports, but with custom spring rates and valving and a lifetime warranty. They ride pretty well and rock on the track.

Then there are more "hardcore" track set-ups that will still ride well on the street (see the Penske thread, as well as JRZs, CSG's Tein Superracing, our RCE T3s) but you'll pay over $4k for all of them and over $7k for the entry level non-adjustable Penskes.

You will want to rethink your set-up when you decide to make your car a dedicated track car (if you're adding a cage, stripping the interior, and stickier tires, etc.) This may mean spring rate changes, valving changes, and of course alignment changes. A little flexibilty with what you choose now will help later but will likely cost more up front.

Hope that helps!

- andrew

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by stoked_on_spool

Is there a magical coilover system that will ride as smooth or smoother than stock while still being a capable track worthy ride?

It depends on how much performance you want from your dampers. Suspension design is a compromise. At one end you have comfort and at the other end you have performance. Quality dampers dampers allow more performance without a jarring ride but if you are using high rate springs your ride is going to be firm (but not crashy).
I am on 9k/10k springs and I know it. I don't find the ride uncomfortable but it is no limousine.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...45&postcount=1

If you want a good compromise then you will be paying for it.See this thread:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89839
If money was no object I would be putting Penskes on my car.

JRZs, ASTs or Motons are built to order with what ever spring rates you want with matching valving.

After that you might want to consider Ohlins R&T which require extra expense if you want different spring rates because they come off the shelf with only one spring rate.

Lastly are Teins SRCs. They come standard with 10k/12k springs but there is slight variation in spring rates available providing the rates fall within the standard valving. They are well regarded by the people who have put them on their cars in this forum.

[ModBargains.com]

+1 on the Ohlins. Sold a ton for E46 M3's, quite a few for the FRS/BRZ and a good handful as well and the #1 response that I get is that they're fantastic on the street, still very comfortable, but really awesome on the track.

[GeorgeJFrick]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

If you liked KW V3s, you might also like our RCE Tarmac 2 coilovers. Based on KW Clubsports, but with custom spring rates and valving and a lifetime warranty. They ride pretty well and rock on the track.
- andrew

I was under the impression they both had lifetime warranties? Can you expand on this?

Also, I can't afford to be in this thread.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by GeorgeJFrick

I was under the impression they both had lifetime warranties? Can you expand on this?

Also, I can't afford to be in this thread.

KW V3 do, but KW Clubsport have no warranty. Our RCE T2s are based on KW Clubsport 2 ways. Our RCE T3s are based on the Clubsport 3 ways. Both of ours have warranties.

- Andrew

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by stoked_on_spool

Hello FT86 Community!

I'm looking for some insight into coilovers (and accompanying components, LCA, camber plates, etc.) that will give me the best dual duty abilities. I've been spoiled now driving my bosses M4 for awhile with his very smooth KW V3 coilover kit and I'm looking for something that can rival that smoothness on the street, but something I won't outgrow taking to the track the next few years. Here's my plan for my car:

- Daily driver for the next 2-3 years (until I get a second car to DD and the BRZ becomes the dedicated street legal track car)
- I've done 3 HPDE's and am addicted
- I want a coilover kit that is as smooth or smoother than stock and am willing to pay for it (quality valving is worth the price to me)

BUT

would love for the coils to be adjustable enough for me to not "outgrow" too soon when the BRZ becomes a dedicated track car where street ride quality isn't quite as high of a priority anymore

I'm the kind of person who likes to do things right the first time. I went from stock susp to eibach springs w/ koni adjustable shocks where I am now to make sure that this BRZ is really a car I'd like to keep for a long time (which it is) so I'm looking to take the next step now. I'll be accompanying the coils with C/C plates, LCA's, etc and would love to hear from experienced people to gain some insight into setups they feel are worthy. I've heard that Ohlin's are some of the best riding coilovers, are there others that can compare in ride quality?


tl;dr Is there a magical coilover system that will ride as smooth or smoother than stock while still being a capable track worthy ride?

p.s. I've searched and found a few related threads, but if this topic has been covered enough please link me to the topic(s) and I'll close this thread so it doesn't jumble up this section. Thanks!

Sounds like some JRZ or Penskes would be perfect for you. Anything sub 4k will improve ride, or improve performance, or have a compromise between the two. The key here will be keeping the rates relatively low, while having good dampers. Combine the two, and you'll ride smoother than stock, while have superior mechanical grip to your boss's M4.

Now, if you're willing to sacrifice some comfort, or some performance, then you'll have a lot of solid options in the 2k+ range.

[stoked_on_spool]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Sounds like some JRZ or Penskes would be perfect for you. Anything sub 4k will improve ride, or improve performance, or have a compromise between the two. The key here will be keeping the rates relatively low, while having good dampers. Combine the two, and you'll ride smoother than stock, while have superior mechanical grip to your boss's M4.

Now, if you're willing to sacrifice some comfort, or some performance, then you'll have a lot of solid options in the 2k+ range.

Thank you everyone for the replies @RacecompEngineering @ModBargains.com @CSGMike

Although I'm willing to spend money, I'm certainly not in the position right now to put unlimited funds towards suspension. lol. I'm just a 26 yr old engineer still.

I'm willing to go 4k max for "full" suspension including coilovers, and necessary components like camber/caster plates and LCA so I can get a proper alignment done. I know there are other things like sway bars and such that will come into play at some point, but for today, I think I'm looking to divert my supercharger fund towards a proper suspension setup I'll be happy with for years to come.

I do believe a compromise will be in order and I think if there will be one to be made, it would be in not going ball to the wall track car ride quality until the car becomes a dedicated track car, and find a par of shocks/springs that will ride really nice on the road.

So I guess with that being said, and I know this is primarily subjective and I need to go on more ride alongs, but whats the general consensus on smoothest riding coilovers? (the fiancee will repay me big time for taking into consideration her feelings And something I can dial in for the southern california tracks I'll frequent most often.

Thanks again for the input everyone!

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by stoked_on_spool

I'm willing to go 4k max for "full" suspension including coilovers, and necessary components like camber/caster plates and LCA so I can get a proper alignment done. I know there are other things like sway bars and such that will come into play at some point, but for today, I think I'm looking to divert my supercharger fund towards a proper suspension setup I'll be happy with for years to come.

You need to answer the usual questions:

1) how much camber do you need?
2) what is intended use? specifics not general descriptions
3) what wheel/tire setup?
4) how much tramlining are you willing to tolerate? See #1 #2 #3 above for the answer to this
5) how low do you want to go?

As an owner of Ohlins w/ arms and other goodies for adjustment, I can tell you that my mods were all out of necessity as my driving needs changed.

If you want just a 1" drop, you have zero need for any other camber adjustment if you went with Ohlins. But if you are finding yourself with not enough camber at the track, then you start making compromises.

-alex

[ModBargains.com]

@stoked_on_spool - You're going to get opinions on that question of which is the smoothest. I still say that Ohlins is a great choice which of course everyone agrees with, and KW as well is very very smooth. Only disadvantage is that I believe the KW's are twin tube, which is perfectly fine for the street, but isn't going to be as good when it comes to performance against a mono-tube shock. Between the two I'd still say that Ohlins has higher quality parts which is why companies like Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani, Ducati and so forth, use them for their factory cars.

[churchx]

My advise may sound weird .. but i'd put Tein Zs or As now, and some better coilovers in that 2-3years future of more track-dedicated configuration. Zs are supposedly better then stock, yet very cheap to serve well as interim budget solution. As coilovers also are wear items, why not save more $$$$ for later when you'll go for that future suspension tuning change instead of buying something expensive right away, when you are not yet sure what exactly you want and if what you'll want in future will be same as you are planning for that future now? You can also spend that money on eg. more trackdays improving driver bit.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by stoked_on_spool

Thank you everyone for the replies @RacecompEngineering @ModBargains.com @CSGMike

Although I'm willing to spend money, I'm certainly not in the position right now to put unlimited funds towards suspension. lol. I'm just a 26 yr old engineer still.

I'm willing to go 4k max for "full" suspension including coilovers, and necessary components like camber/caster plates and LCA so I can get a proper alignment done. I know there are other things like sway bars and such that will come into play at some point, but for today, I think I'm looking to divert my supercharger fund towards a proper suspension setup I'll be happy with for years to come.

I do believe a compromise will be in order and I think if there will be one to be made, it would be in not going ball to the wall track car ride quality until the car becomes a dedicated track car, and find a par of shocks/springs that will ride really nice on the road.

So I guess with that being said, and I know this is primarily subjective and I need to go on more ride alongs, but whats the general consensus on smoothest riding coilovers? (the fiancee will repay me big time for taking into consideration her feelings And something I can dial in for the southern california tracks I'll frequent most often.

Thanks again for the input everyone!

As an engineer, I think you'll always know that you've compromised on the suspension setup.

Being that you plan on tracking the car, I'd actually recommend you start super rudimentary. Get camber bolts, set your toe, and hit the track first. Once you figure out what exactly you want from the car in terms of behavior, you can then determine what route you want to go with your suspension. In the meantime, your driving skill will be improving, as well as increasing your spending power as you work your way through the professional field.

You're in socal; you should come to 86CUP and experience the range of coilovers that are present. Feeling them yourself is the best way to figure out what you think you want.

[stoked_on_spool]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

As an engineer, I think you'll always know that you've compromised on the suspension setup.

Being that you plan on tracking the car, I'd actually recommend you start super rudimentary. Get camber bolts, set your toe, and hit the track first. Once you figure out what exactly you want from the car in terms of behavior, you can then determine what route you want to go with your suspension. In the meantime, your driving skill will be improving, as well as increasing your spending power as you work your way through the professional field.

You're in socal; you should come to 86CUP and experience the range of coilovers that are present. Feeling them yourself is the best way to figure out what you think you want.

I know there's always a compromise, but was HOPING there was a magical offering I hadn't yet discovered... lol.

I have camber bolts (aligned at -1 deg) and my current suspension includes eibach pro-kit springs with koni yellow single adjustable shocks. I was pretty content with that setup and thought it would carry me farther into owning the car (hence I was saving up for a supercharger) but after driving around my bosses M4 and feeling how tuned his TC Kline 2 way setup was, it put into perspective how rigid and unforgiving my setup is. I know these are completely different platforms, but every time I get in my car now I can't help but realize how bumpy it is over the same exact road and it's starting to annoy me a bit. I know this is a "sports car" and it will not handle like my fiancee's Volvo, but I'm not happy with these koni's no matter how I adjust them.

I've tried making it out to a couple different 86Cup events but they haven't lined up for me yet with work and life getting in the way. So far I've done track days with Socal Audi at SMMR (my boss was my instructor), then Porsche LV at SMMR and finally AROSC at Buttonwillow where they couldn't provide an instructor. I'm all about being open minded and listening to instructions and feedback. First HPDE was completely stock, over worked the brakes as it was 100+F and kept all the nannies on. Second HPDE day was 100+ again but I had camber bolts and the lowering springs and put it in sport mode to try and feel the car move a bit more. Third event I purchased a set of Mach V 17x9 and had 245/40/17 RS3's I tried out on the second day to feel the difference between the car on stock tires vs wider sticky tires. I'm buying a set of track pads and doing DOT4 brake fluid before the next event, so that's where I'm at in terms of where I am driving wise and looking towards the future. As i said earlier, I'm hooked on doing HPDE's and I want this car to eventually become a dedicated weekend/track car, but in the meantime, I'd like something I can adjust to be more compliant than my current setup on the street but be capable on the track as well.

Thanks again for all the input everyone. I'll be looking out for the next event to do ride alongs in addition to finding some local people in the SD club to see the street friendly setups.

-Bret