Hey Guys

[Target70]

Originally Posted by JG

I heard to go the forced induction route is costly and nobody knows if the longevity of the vehicle is tampered with by doing so. I remember reading that the 86 twins don't take too kindly to bolt on's without a tune. I like what you did first with your vehicle though. I actually will do what you did to the windows also. I don't like the idea of my windows being a little down when i leave the vehicle (i'm not leaving my dog in the car lol). Idk if it will pull harder with stock tires, I just don't like the stock rims and the skinny look of the tires in general. Though i read they're good for drifting!

forced induction is pretty expensive, but there are less expensive options out there, I am planning on the Phantom ESC(electric super charger). You don't have to go the FI route, with a header and good tune you can remove alot of the mid range torque dip we have, but as far as torque gains, I don't know much beyond that.
Also with the window indexing, the windows don't stay down when you leave the car. When the door sensor feels you start to open the door, the window rolls down about 1 to 2 inches and stays there untill you close the door, then the window rolls back up. I believe this is to allow air to move into/out of the car when opening/closing the door, which reduces pressure and makes it easer to open/close the door. I just saw this as unnecessary use of the window motors, and possible window damage/scratches if there is dirt/grit on the felt at the base of the window. This window indexing has caused other problems like window seal bunching and failure, window lockups due to the seal blocking the window, and in colder climates window freezing(can't roll it all the way up after closing the door), but being that you are/will be in cali, I don't think the last one will be an issue for you. Most people are fine with it though, I just came from a completely manual car, and like the reliablilty of it only doing what I tell it to do.

[JG]

Originally Posted by Target70

forced induction is pretty expensive, but there are less expensive options out there, I am planning on the Phantom ESC(electric super charger). You don't have to go the FI route, with a header and good tune you can remove alot of the mid range torque dip we have, but as far as torque gains, I don't know much beyond that.
Also with the window indexing, the windows don't stay down when you leave the car. When the door sensor feels you start to open the door, the window rolls down about 1 to 2 inches and stays there untill you close the door, then the window rolls back up. I believe this is to allow air to move into/out of the car when opening/closing the door, which reduces pressure and makes it easer to open/close the door. I just saw this as unnecessary use of the window motors, and possible window damage/scratches if there is dirt/grit on the felt at the base of the window. This window indexing has caused other problems like window seal bunching and failure, window lockups due to the seal blocking the window, and in colder climates window freezing(can't roll it all the way up after closing the door), but being that you are/will be in cali, I don't think the last one will be an issue for you. Most people are fine with it though, I just came from a completely manual car, and like the reliablilty of it only doing what I tell it to do.

Ahhh i see. Well that isn't that much of a problem anymore (the windows). An electric supercharger huh? How much does that run for and could that potentially target the longevity of the vehicle or is that like the safe route to cheap FI?

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

If I were starting over from scratch, I'd go with Vishnu's Open Flash Header + Open Flash Tablet combo first for $1k. Gains of almost 20 hp to the wheels. Or if you want more midrange torque and have some money, the Nameless EL header + tune.

Then go from there since a header will significantly increase noise and rasp. You'll want to pick your other exhaust mods accordingly.

I'll have to look into the Open Flash combo. $1k is steep for a tune yes? But even so i would love a 20hp gain to the wheels that sounds awesome. When searching for a header wouldn't it be cheaper to purchase a full exhuast system or does that come without the header? I feel like my decision on buying the header is going to have to be well thought.

Originally Posted by Migero86

Glad to see your approach to this, there is nothing wrong with all the other vehicles mentioned, they just arent apple to apple comparos and truly they are designed and perform to said design.

Keep us posted on your progress and this place is a wealth of information, sometimes its overload.

Not saying there is anything wrong with them. There's just a shit ton of Marines with the American Muscle and it's kind of played out in my eyes. Doesn't make them horrible cars. Nope not one bit, but i will definitely keep you posted once i make my purchase. I'm hoping the 2015's come out soon so i can get a nice price drop on the 2013. Unless the 2015's come with a nice boost of power then i might just grab that lol.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by JG

Ahhh i see. Well that isn't that much of a problem anymore (the windows). An electric supercharger huh? How much does that run for and could that potentially target the longevity of the vehicle or is that like the safe route to cheap FI?

I'll have to look into the Open Flash combo. $1k is steep for a tune yes? But even so i would love a 20hp gain to the wheels that sounds awesome. When searching for a header wouldn't it be cheaper to purchase a full exhuast system or does that come without the header? I feel like my decision on buying the header is going to have to be well thought.

the electric supercharger info here : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719 will cost about $1700 plus the tune and shipping. Much less expensive, and not designed to take the place of a traditional FI system, it produces really nice numbers especially at lower rpms. Only takes about 1 to 2 hours to install with basic hand tools. I can't comment on the longevity of the motor with the ESC, but they have been on test vehicles running for over a year now with no reported problems. It seems relatively safe to me because they are only able to produce ~4.5 psi of boost at most, so there is no danger of over boosting. Shiv the tuner making maps for the OFT has been tweaking his map for the ESC, and is reported to be quite safe for the car. It won't beat a full time super or turbo setup in terms of peak power, or on track, but the early adopters say it really wakes up the car, (check out that low end torque) and is a quick install.

$1k would be expensive for a tune. But the OFT only costs $500 for the tablet which works as a data logger, stores the tunes so you can flash and reflash your stock ecu, and has some other nifty functions.
The OFH costs about $650 by itself which is pretty cheap for a header to begin with, but if you buy both the OFH and the OFT you will save about $150, and both together will only cost you around $1k. As for your exhaust decisions, yes they will have to be well thought out and researched. Depending on how loud, what type of sound you are looking for, weight, performance and rasp, and emissions will all play a role in what you choose. You could buy an entire exhaust system, but most of the time it is not necessary unless you are going for maximum performance. If you just want a different sound, usually a catback is good enough, and there are tons of different ones to choose from. If you want more power, it is more cost effective to start with the Header, and there are tons of different headers to choose from. You can look up sound clips to hear different exhaust setups, but the best would be to listen to some modded exhausts in person. It is all about finding what you want and what you are willing to spend. If you go with the OFT, OFH, K&N drop in, and the Phantom ESC and dual battery packs, you would spend about $3000, and this is the type of performance upgrade you could expect.
*note, the above dyno also had an aftermarket catback

[JG]

Originally Posted by Target70

the electric supercharger info here : http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39719 will cost about $1700 plus the tune and shipping. Much less expensive, and not designed to take the place of a traditional FI system, it produces really nice numbers especially at lower rpms. Only takes about 1 to 2 hours to install with basic hand tools. I can't comment on the longevity of the motor with the ESC, but they have been on test vehicles running for over a year now with no reported problems. It seems relatively safe to me because they are only able to produce ~4.5 psi of boost at most, so there is no danger of over boosting. Shiv the tuner making maps for the OFT has been tweaking his map for the ESC, and is reported to be quite safe for the car. It won't beat a full time super or turbo setup in terms of peak power, or on track, but the early adopters say it really wakes up the car, (check out that low end torque) and is a quick install.

$1k would be expensive for a tune. But the OFT only costs $500 for the tablet which works as a data logger, stores the tunes so you can flash and reflash your stock ecu, and has some other nifty functions.
The OFH costs about $650 by itself which is pretty cheap for a header to begin with, but if you buy both the OFH and the OFT you will save about $150, and both together will only cost you around $1k. As for your exhaust decisions, yes they will have to be well thought out and researched. Depending on how loud, what type of sound you are looking for, weight, performance and rasp, and emissions will all play a role in what you choose. You could buy an entire exhaust system, but most of the time it is not necessary unless you are going for maximum performance. If you just want a different sound, usually a catback is good enough, and there are tons of different ones to choose from. If you want more power, it is more cost effective to start with the Header, and there are tons of different headers to choose from. You can look up sound clips to hear different exhaust setups, but the best would be to listen to some modded exhausts in person. It is all about finding what you want and what you are willing to spend. If you go with the OFT, OFH, K&N drop in, and the Phantom ESC and dual battery packs, you would spend about $3000, and this is the type of performance upgrade you could expect.
*note, the above dyno also had an aftermarket catback

Wow... That is a good price for what it gives you.. I'm even more excited now They have done a lot of research for it. Too bad a lot of those pictures are blocked atm. Will putting this SC in there void the warranty?

[Target70]

Not sure why they are blocked for you unless you are on .gov network.. they block out a lot of stuff at the AFB I work at.

Well technically if something breaks that is associated with any mod you do they will not cover it. Even if it is not associated they will most likely give you a hard time and make you fight to have it covered.. That's one of the main draws for the OFT + Phantom ESC. If anything goes wrong, it's free and takes 5 minutes to flash back to your factory tune, and it should take no more than 5 minutes to remove the major components of the ESC and return the car back to completely stock. So the dealership will never know it was modified unless you tell them. *note you don't even have to install a header if you don't want to, but from my understanding even with the ESC the header helps a lot when you are off boost, and maximizes gains when you are boosting. anyway 50hp/50tq for $3000 with minor risk and the ability to quickly and easily return to stock for any warranty work is why I have my sights set on this setup.

*edit: one more thing is that shiv is working on a map for E85 gas to work with the phantom that will most likely add 20 more hp/tq over using 91oct.

[JG]

Originally Posted by Target70

Not sure why they are blocked for you unless you are on .gov network.. they block out a lot of stuff at the AFB I work at.

Well technically if something breaks that is associated with any mod you do they will not cover it. Even if it is not associated they will most likely give you a hard time and make you fight to have it covered.. That's one of the main draws for the OFT + Phantom ESC. If anything goes wrong, it's free and takes 5 minutes to flash back to your factory tune, and it should take no more than 5 minutes to remove the major components of the ESC and return the car back to completely stock. So the dealership will never know it was modified unless you tell them. *note you don't even have to install a header if you don't want to, but from my understanding even with the ESC the header helps a lot when you are off boost, and maximizes gains when you are boosting. anyway 50hp/50tq for $3000 with minor risk and the ability to quickly and easily return to stock for any warranty work is why I have my sights set on this setup.

*edit: one more thing is that shiv is working on a map for E85 gas to work with the phantom that will most likely add 20 more hp/tq over using 91oct.

Well i'm currently in Afghanistan so i guess you can say a .gov network lol. Is E85 regular gas? I'm not sure i understand that referance. I know that 91oct is premium (correct me if i'm wrong). I actually wouldn't mind doing this set up. Switching back to stock is a great safety net. Especially if i have to bring my car in for a repair. I was able to see some of the Dyno Pictures on the other thread and they look impressive. Wonder how this thing sounds in the twins.

[Target70]

E85 is not really normal gas, it is a high ethanol content gas 85% i think, called flex fuel, and is sometimes available at local gas stations in your neighborhood. I have not done much reading about it, but i believe it acts as an even higher octane gas than premium, allowing for more aggressive tuning before you run into issues like knock (pre-detonation of gas due to engine heat).
They have some vs clips on the first page when you can get access to them, but they are pretty old, and there have been a lot of updates since then including the support from shiv with the OFT so performance has been climbing. If you post any interest in the phantom thread they are usually really helpful. But since you haven't got the car yet, you may just want to read a few pages of the thread first. I know it is a huge thread, but you should learn a lot about it in the first 10 pages or so.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by JG

I actually will do what you did to the windows also. I don't like the idea of my windows being a little down when i leave the vehicle (i'm not leaving my dog in the car lol).

I would suggest not doing that.

In a car door with an upper frame around the window, the window glass rolls up into the seal on the door to create a proper seal that keeps out rain. This car's door has no upper frame, so the window glass has to seal against the rubber in the car body. In older cars that had this setup, the glass sealed flat against the rubber, which was prone to leaking over time after it had a chance to deteriorate.

To solve this problem, when you open the door of this car (actually when the car detects your hand on the door handle), the car automatically drops the window about 1/2" (NOT 1 to 2 inches as mentioned above) to clear the rubber in the seal. When you shut the door, the window rolls back up against the rubber to create a good seal. The seal itself is designed to have the glass move up against it, not to be shut flat against it like an older Buick.

The factory service manual actually states that opening and closing the car door with the indexing disabled will damage the seal around the car door and cause leaks. When you open and close the door with the indexing disabled, the glass tears at the seal. There is rarely any good reason to disable this feature.

Originally Posted by JG

Is E85 regular gas? I'm not sure i understand that referance.

E85 is a blend of fuel that is supposed to be 85% ethanol and 15% "other hydrocarbons." In reality, the standard says that it can have as little as 51% ethanol and still be called E85. The US government is pushing this fuel as being environmentally friendly, since it's supposed to have cleaner emissions. The auto manufacturers have complained that the higher alcohol content causes premature wear on some parts not specifically designed for it.

You can't run this stuff in just any car. The vehicle has to be set up to handle it. "Flex fuel" vehicles are supposed to be able to handle E85 from the factory. A lot of BRZ/FR-S owners tune their cars for E85 because it is supposed to have an effective octane rating of 94 to 96, and our cars apparently love it. I haven't used it myself.

Whether you will be able to use it will depend for the most part on where you live when you return to the US. I don't know of any stations that sell it in my area. It's more common in the Midwest because of the corn growers' lobby.

[JG]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I would suggest not doing that.

Thanks for the Info! I didn't know that.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

E85 is a blend of fuel that is supposed to be 85% ethanol and 15% "other hydrocarbons." In reality, the standard says that it can have as little as 51% ethanol and still be called E85. The US government is pushing this fuel as being environmentally friendly, since it's supposed to have cleaner emissions. The auto manufacturers have complained that the higher alcohol content causes premature wear on some parts not specifically designed for it.

You can't run this stuff in just any car. The vehicle has to be set up to handle it. "Flex fuel" vehicles are supposed to be able to handle E85 from the factory. A lot of BRZ/FR-S owners tune their cars for E85 because it is supposed to have an effective octane rating of 94 to 96, and our cars apparently love it. I haven't used it myself.

Whether you will be able to use it will depend for the most part on where you live when you return to the US. I don't know of any stations that sell it in my area. It's more common in the Midwest because of the corn growers' lobby.

Ahh i see. Well i live in San Diego so maybe i'll be able to find some there? You said a car has to be set up for it. Is that the tune you're suggesting or do I have to change out the parts that are designed to feed my engine?

Originally Posted by Target70

E85 is not really normal gas, it is a high ethanol content gas 85% i think, called flex fuel, and is sometimes available at local gas stations in your neighborhood. I have not done much reading about it, but i believe it acts as an even higher octane gas than premium, allowing for more aggressive tuning before you run into issues like knock (pre-detonation of gas due to engine heat).
They have some vs clips on the first page when you can get access to them, but they are pretty old, and there have been a lot of updates since then including the support from shiv with the OFT so performance has been climbing. If you post any interest in the phantom thread they are usually really helpful. But since you haven't got the car yet, you may just want to read a few pages of the thread first. I know it is a huge thread, but you should learn a lot about it in the first 10 pages or so.

I researched it and found a lot of cars who got huge gains with just changing their gas to E85

Unfortunately Youtube is blocked so i can't watch any of the vs videos for now. Is a OFH a header or some tune needed for my header? I tried to read an article on it but the acronym's are insane lol.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I would suggest not doing that.

To solve this problem, when you open the door of this car (actually when the car detects your hand on the door handle) the car automatically drops the window about....

I won't argue any about the longevity of the seal because I don't have any proof, but I have had mine disabled for the last few months and have seen no problem, though I will update if/when one appears. The window is angled in at the top, this angle allows the top edge of the window to clear the window trim and make the initial contact with seal. As the door continues to close the window is forced more vertically, which allows the top to slide up into the "pocket" at the top of the seal. In my case, only time will tell if this causes the issues you listed, as the window indexing had already warped the passenger side window seal before I ever did this mod, I wouldn't loose much. I do not know what version of the car you have, but my door handle has no special sensors on it to tell the car my hand has been applied. If you still do not agree, then try this: it will only take 1 minute and a 10mm socket. Just open the car door and remove the bolt from the door switch (it's what I did). The bolt acts as a ground for the door switch to tell the car the door is open. With the bolt removed the car thinks the door is always closed. So If you are correct, then after doing this, your window should still operate since your handle is being touched.

JG: Unfortunately Youtube is blocked so i can't watch any of the vs videos for now. Is a OFH a header or some tune needed for my header? I tried to read an article on it but the acronym's are insane lol.

no problem, It can get really confusing. the OF"H" stands for Open Flash Header, it is the exhaust header. The OF"T" stands for Open Flash Tablet, and this is the tablet used to flash or upload the tune to your car. The company started by making the tablet, and later started producing the header. The same company makes them both, that's why you can get a discount for buying them both. I would provide a link to the page but it is blocked on my base, so you probably couldn't see it either.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Target70

I do not know what version of the car you have, but my door handle has no special sensors on it to tell the car my hand has been applied.

You know what? I was mistaken. For some reason I was thinking it dropped when the door sensor for my keyless entry detected my hand, but that's not the case. It's tied to the switch at the rear of the door, and it drops as soon as the door is pulled open.

Either way, this is the direct quote from the FSM that is inserted wherever the mechanic is instructed to disconnect the battery:

CAUTION:
Power windows have an index function that slightly opens/closes window glass when a door is opened/closed. Disconnect the battery ground (negative) terminal with the driver’s and passenger’s doors opened (window glass lowered to a position where door opening/closing is not a problem). The molding will be damaged if the battery ground terminal is disconnected with the window glass completely closed and a door is opened/closed.

I would think that disabling the index function would have the same effect, except that instead of opening the door once or twice in the shop, you're doing it repeatedly. Or is your window always stuck in the down position?

[JG]

Originally Posted by Target70

no problem, It can get really confusing. the OF"H" stands for Open Flash Header, it is the exhaust header. The OF"T" stands for Open Flash Tablet, and this is the tablet used to flash or upload the tune to your car. The company started by making the tablet, and later started producing the header. The same company makes them both, that's why you can get a discount for buying them both. I would provide a link to the page but it is blocked on my base, so you probably couldn't see it either.

Ok cool so it is a header. I was confused. So i don't even have to buy the whole exhaust system. Just the header and tips

[Target70]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Either way, this is the direct quote from the FSM that is inserted wherever the mechanic is instructed to disconnect the battery: CAUTION:
Power windows have an index function that slightly opens/closes window glass when a door is opened/closed. Disconnect the battery ground (negative) terminal with the driver’s and passenger’s doors opened (window glass lowered to a position where door opening/closing is not a problem). The molding will be damaged if the battery ground terminal is disconnected with the window glass completely closed and a door is opened/closed.

I would think that disabling the index function would have the same effect, except that instead of opening the door once or twice in the shop, you're doing it repeatedly. Or is your window always stuck in the down position?

You are right about it being the same effect. I leave my window rolled all the way up, and I won't lie it is close. There is only about 1mm of clearance between the window and the molding they are talking about. I think it all comes down to the assembly of the car and how the body panels line up. If my door was angled slightly higher it might make contact and I would not be able to open/close the door without slamming the glass into the molding. also there are usually adjustable stops on the window motor and glass. If these tolerances are too tight on your car you may have interference. So when doing this mod it is very important to remember to check because every car is slightly different, even the gap between my drivers and passenger side were different. When you take the bolt out, the door is already open, and when the bolt is completely removed the window will rise up thinking the door is closed. from there you just have to close the door very slowly to insure you have enough of a gap to safely close the door without making contact. That being said this is not for everybody. I did it because I was having this problem: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=47 Also after doing this the dome light doesn't come on when I open the door(the car doesn't know the door is open), but it does come on for 20 seconds when I use the keyfob to unlock the door so it's not a big deal for me, lastly I can now sit in the car with the key turned on to listen to music with the door open for a cool breeze without it constantly beeping at me to close the door.

sorry for the threadjack JG

[JG]

Originally Posted by Target70

sorry for the threadjack JG

lol it's okay. All the questions i asked were answered perfectly. So ty