2017 Alfa Romeo Giulia (pronounced "Julia")

[kanundrum]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRBOJvUL2-w[/ame]

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

3700lbs is sort of heavy, but I suppose the more fair way to put it is that the F30 M3 is exceptionally light.

~3550 lb. =/= "exceptionally light"...

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by ZDan

~3550 lb. =/= "exceptionally light"...

For a high powered sedan of that size?

Considering it has a fat turbo and a bunch of power leather seats, and manages to be the lighter than the competition, it seems to be very light for it's class.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by ZDan

~3550 lb. =/= "exceptionally light"...

Considering that it is still a luxury car with things like ample sound deadening and luxuries like heated and power seats that isnt bad. A GD STi weighs about 3300 and is loud as hell and sounds like an empty tin can most of the time

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

3700lbs is sort of heavy, but I suppose the more fair way to put it is that the F30 M3 is exceptionally light.

If 3700 lb. is "sorta heavy", I don't see how 3550 lb. could be considered "exceptionally light"...

Toyota and/or Subaru should build a small, lightweight sedan on the FT86 platform and make a modern E30 3-series/M3

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by ZDan

If 3700 lb. is "sorta heavy", I don't see how 3550 lb. could be considered "exceptionally light"...

Toyota and/or Subaru should build a small, lightweight sedan on the FT86 platform and make a modern E30 3-series/M3

But it IS the lightest in its class by a good shot, and that is very impressive because it has a heavier engine than many competitors too. G37, C350, Guilia, are all 3700lbs. IS350 is 3600lbs.

3550lbs with a >400hp turbo engine is amazing.

[DAEMANO]

I'm ok with 3700 lbs / 400WHP & TQ on a heartbreaker Mustang dyno given that this is still a full luxury car with 50/50 balance and probably a very low COG (due to the CF hood/roof and aluminum used throughout). I have no doubt that well healed folks wanting this platform for the track would install their own seats (and strip weight the way it's always been done). Really though, those buyers would just get a weekend purpose built sports car. The QV is a compact Grand Touring Sedan that straight up handles the "sports" aspects, but still gets the luxury duties quite well. Considering that it spanks the most insano-sporting versions of the M3/M4, CTS-V, and C63 AMG and can be a kittycat on the road that's really saying something.

[86 South Africa]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This car..

510bhp from a Ferrari designed twin turbo V6 (derivative of the engine in the Maserati Ghibli and/or the standard engine in the 2018 Ferrari Dino) - Dat sound.
est 3300 - 3400 lbs @ 50/50weight distro
Sized between M3 and ATS-V
RWD with AWD optional
Manual Transmission with sequential optional
0-62 3.9 sec (or less)
est $75,000
i4 turbo (from the Alpha 4C) & a NA V6 will be offered in the ballpark of $40k - $50k
Double wishbone front suspension, multi-link rear
Electronically-controlled adaptive dampers
True torque vectoring (via clutches in the diff, not braking)
Active aerodynamics
Carbon ceramic, electromechanically actuated brakes
Aluminum engine, brakes, suspension, and doors and wings.
Carbon Fiber drive shaft hood, and roof

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...iulia-revealed

It's really pretty.... but so expensive, and it's still an Alfa.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by 86 South Africa

It's really pretty.... but so expensive, and it's still an Alfa.

Expensive? Naw. From a performance perspective, the only 4-door mass production car that can sorta touch the Guilia QV was the 2017 Porsche Panamera Turbo S.

Nordschleife - Nürburgring

The Porsche ran it in 7:38. The 48th fastest time for a production car.
The Alfa ran it in 7:32. The 32nd fastest time for a production car and the fastest for a sedan/saloon ever. Also faster than Konigsegg's CCX & CCR, the LFA, and Gallardo.

https://nurburgringlaptimes.com/lap-times-top-100/

Now cost...
The Panamera's MSRP is $147,950.
The Giuli QV's MSRP is $72,000.

Let that sink in.

Also, Alfa's (if you look into their history) have been some of the most beautiful and desirable cars ever made. The last 20 years have been a rough spot in their history. Still, this company has heritage and the ability to produce emotional cars that people desire and remember.

[WolfpackS2k]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well, at least it's not as bad as the British, who manage to make their aluminum chassis cars heavier than the German steel chassis competition lol. The Jaguar F type and Aston Martin Vantage convertibles weigh basically the same as an Alfa Guilia, and they are all aluminum.

Yeah, Jaguar never fails to fail at building light cars. The XE, their compact sports sedan, weighs more than their F-Pace mid-sized SUV (when equipped with identical powertrains). How the F do you explain that?!

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Well, the strength difference of aluminum to steel depends on strength in what way and what exact alloy and temper, but 3 to 1 is being a little too kind to most of the steel on a car. Generally speaking you have to be a lot more clever or use more expensive materials/processes to get steel to be lighter. Since aluminum parts need to be thicker for equivalent tensile strength, you automatically have a stiffness advantage in many cases just by using aluminum.

Of course, British companies like Lotus/Aston/Jag don't have as much resources to figure this out as the German makes, so it is kind of expected that their aluminum chassis are half-assed and thus heavy. The Evora is heavier than a 911 despite having a lighter engine and not an ounce of steel in the body and chassis, PLUS much taller and wider door sills for efficient stiffening, and that comes from a company that tries to sell "lightness".

FYI only the 911R (3042), and possibly GT3 RS (3133), weigh less than any Evoras. An Evora S weighs roughly 3166 lb, with a regular Evora a bit less than that (3046). The new Evora 400 is 3153 lb (all figures taken from Google). As we all know, there are a million 911 variants, but their weights range from 3153 to well over 3500 lb.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

But it IS the lightest in its class by a good shot, and that is very impressive because it has a heavier engine than many competitors too. G37, C350, Guilia, are all 3700lbs. IS350 is 3600lbs.

It's the lightest in that group, but I wouldn't really call it an outlier, it's within 3% of the mean.

3550lbs with a >400hp turbo engine is amazing.

I would rather have a smaller sub-3000 lb. rwd sport sedan even with inferior power/weight (say, 250hp). Too bad nobody makes one...

[WolfpackS2k]

Come on Dan, there isn't a single M3 competitor that is within 300-350 lbs of it's weight. That's significant.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

Come on Dan, there isn't a single M3 competitor that is within 300-350 lbs of it's weight. That's significant.

Well, I was assuming 3700 was the correct weight for the QV, and somewhere I got 3550 as the M3/M4 weight. But here the as-tested weights are a bit higher: http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...e-specs-page-6

QV = 3822 lb., M3 = 3662 lb., ATS-V = 3839 lb., C63 = 3958

So the M3 is 160 lb. or 4% lighter than the Alfa, and even the nearly-4000 lb. C63 is within 300 lb. of the M3.

[kanundrum]

Just a FYI My Giulia weighs 3700lbs (wet) with out the carbon ceramics or carbon fiber seat. Throw those in and your are 3600lbs maybe a bit less.