Thinking about getting one later this year, a few thoughts

[mremg]

Hey guys,

I'm thinking about getting an 86 later this year. I recently sold my beloved AP1 S2000 and want to get something similar and the GT86 is probably the closest match. Well, the Cayman is a closer one but it's out of my budget right now. Also, I tend to keep cars stock as much as possible because I don't work on cars and hence not really comfortable with modding them beyond little things.

My current car is a '12 TT RS and my significant other drives an NC Miata, just for reference.

I drove a '13 FR-S special edition not too long ago and I liked it very much. The power is good for me but I'm a little underwhelmed by the engine. It feels slightly coarse and doesn't sound that inspiring (pretty much like our NC Miata). I honestly think Toyota would've been better off with their old 2ZZ motor instead of this Subaru boxer.

The seating position, steering and the seats are just perfect IMHO. Only if Miata had such awesome seats. I think Toyota really nailed it here. The shifter felt decent but after the S2000 no shifter feels good enough. But, I can get used to it, no big deal.

Power delivery - I like that I have to work the engine and keep the rpms high sorta like an S2000. I wish it revved a little high, somewhere around 8k rpm but oh well. The NC Miata is totally gutless at high rpms which always annoyed me. The boxer in the FR-S is slightly better but doesn't have that VTEC like shove. I did notice the Torque dip, but it didn't bother me that much and I felt it's way overblown that what it is. Maybe it'll change if I actually start driving it everyday. Throttle response is good, but it's not as instantaneous like the AP1s.

Suspension - I thought it was very well done. It absorbed bumps really well and also felt stiff. One of the things that Mazda really screwed up with the Miata is making the suspension wallow-y and soft.

Misc - I wish it was a 'fastback' style hatch like the Audi TT. It would've made this car tremendously practical. The car I drove didn't have the arm rest, but I see that it can be a dealer installed option.

Well, I guess that's it. I will be hanging around this forum a lot more and hopefully I'll make a decision soon! Bottom line, I really want to get this car but still keep thinking about the S2000!

[mrg666]

With a header+tune, you can get to the level of S2000 engine. See below
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121460

One step further up is a supercharger and you surpass the S2000 engine
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49192

I have the second setup. The engine feels like completely unleashed, sound is completely different, response is very linear. Past 5000 rpm is unbelievable.

The 86 is an excellent platform as stock and it can easily be enhanced to upper class performance when/if you want.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

If you get the '17 86, you'll get your VTEC back. The engine explodes forward at 5K rpm and it never gets tiring. The only other problem is seats that are not optimal for longer drives.

[Celica00]

[HKz]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

If you get the '17 86, you'll get your VTEC back. The engine explodes forward at 5K rpm and it never gets tiring. The only other problem is seats that are not optimal for longer drives.

"explodes" is perhaps a little over the top, but tbh it ain't any different between 13-16 vs 17, peak power band is certainly after 5 K for all of them. seats are totally body dependent and demand good posture. drove from phoenix to boise and back, each in one night, and my back never got sore.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

Have you looked at the Fiat 124 Abarth? Probably won't be reliable in the long run. I have no experience with it, but it might be something you want to test drive.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by HKz

"explodes" is perhaps a little over the top, but tbh it ain't any different between 13-16 vs 17, peak power band is certainly after 5 K for all of them. seats are totally body dependent and demand good posture. drove from phoenix to boise and back, each in one night, and my back never got sore.

I didn't feel it at first, but I don't know if it's the lower temperatures we're getting up here or I'm just getting tuned into the car but it lunges forward and it's very distinct. I'm not the only one who's reported this being more prominent in the facelifted models.

[Spuds]

The thing about the 86 is that it's very adaptable and an easy car to learn to work on if it's something you want to try. I've kept my '13 mostly stock for the last 4 years myself, but there's lots of little things to scratch the "but it could be better" itch.

Don't like the shifter? Mess with bushings or just install another one. If you drove a 13 recently, it's likely the shifter bushings have been worn in. Brand new the shifter was excellent on mine, but a tad bit dull now. No s2k experience so I can't compare.

Want it to go faster or the engine to behave differently? All manner of OTS tuning and FI are available. I recently got an OFT which changes the throttle behavior quite a bit. It's quite easy to use.

4 years later, still don't see a need to update the suspension yet, but if I get bored, it's always an option.

I would have preferred a hatch on the back myself, but I'd check out the "junk in the trunk" thread for cargo practicality questions.

[Somerandom18]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

If you get the '17 86, you'll get your VTEC back. The engine explodes forward at 5K rpm and it never gets tiring. The only other problem is seats that are not optimal for longer drives.

This. Feels exactly like VTEC when you pass 5k.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[HKz]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I didn't feel it at first, but I don't know if it's the lower temperatures we're getting up here or I'm just getting tuned into the car but it lunges forward and it's very distinct. I'm not the only one who's reported this being more prominent in the facelifted models.

the gear ratio change mainly affects torque output at lower revs and you can't tell me the 5 extra HP makes the car "explosive" compared to the 13-16s. it is still pretty much the same.

the way i look at it for the op, if you really want a brand car the new 86/brz is certainly the way to go especially since you want to keep it stock. but you aren't missing out on anything significant by going used with the pre-facelifted models.

[mremg]

Thanks for the responses. For those who suggested gently modifying it (header, tune, supercharger etc) to make it more akin to S2000, I'm a bit skeptical going that route, even if the twins are really easy to mod. Like I said, I really don't know how to work on cars (I can barely manage to change oil) and once I go down modding route, it'll likely end up me paying huge mechanic costs for every little thing that might go wrong or not to my liking. At that point, I would rather get a different car altogether.

I'm curious about the '17 MY power changes. From what I've read they difference is more apparent in high rpms than before. I'll have to test drive one for myself.

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

Have you looked at the Fiat 124 Abarth? Probably won't be reliable in the long run. I have no experience with it, but it might be something you want to test drive.

Fiat 124 Abarth - I already have a turbo car and would rather stick to NA. Also, the 124 Spider uses the NC Miata transmission, while it is bullet proof and does the job adequately it's not really my favorite.

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

If you get the '17 86, you'll get your VTEC back. The engine explodes forward at 5K rpm and it never gets tiring. The only other problem is seats that are not optimal for longer drives.

Interesting. I was only in the car for 20-25 mins and I was really comfortable in the seats. But, tbh I think I'll be ok.

[SlowCarFast]

The s2k was my main other choice before I bought my brz recently, so I will put in my .02


The s2k is a higher performing car than the 86 and the f20 is a VERY special engine. It has more character that the fa20 will ever have. I suggest you come to terms with that or you will never be happy with an 86. Also, the newer 86 is cheaper than the s2k ever was, so there are some compromises in general materials.

That being said, the 86 platform is special in its own way. It BEGS you to go faster. It will never scare you. It will never do anything without ample warning. While the pre-06 s2k's are more analog, I think the 86 gives the driver more overall feedback. The car is so low and the chassis is so good that you know exactly what all 4 wheels are doing at all times. Every little bump and variance in the road is magnified. Why the fa20 has less character, you will grow to appreciate the more linear and predictable power band if you spend enough time with it.

Also, the 86 is a coupe and newer. Even though the interior materials are much nicer in the s2k, I feel the 86 is generally a nicer place to be. But I am not much of a convertible guy, so take that for what you will.

Basically, go drive one on some back roads. Try to get a few hours with one. Push it a little... Then push it harder. Hear the car whisper in your ear that you are a ***** for taking the turn that slow. If you still don't like it, then it is not the car for you.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by mremg

The power is good for me but I'm a little underwhelmed by the engine. It feels slightly coarse and doesn't sound that inspiring (pretty much like our NC Miata).

Put a Corsa exhaust on it. I know in my head that my exhaust added no power at all, but the difference in sound really made the engine come to life. The change in butt dyno makes it feel like a faster car.

I know you said you don't want to work on the car yourself or pay thousands for someone else to do the work, but it's not impossible to find a shop that will install a cat-back in an hour for $75-$100. I wish I had done mine years ago.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I didn't feel it at first, but I don't know if it's the lower temperatures we're getting up here or I'm just getting tuned into the car but it lunges forward and it's very distinct. I'm not the only one who's reported this being more prominent in the facelifted models.

Clarkson called the 86 he drove "immediate". The 17 is more immediate than my 13 was. If the 17 engine had been there all along, the complaints would be reduced by half, at least.