2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[Quentin]

Originally Posted by seito23

I still read some stories on the boards here of newer MY twins having engine issues. Then there's: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...S/Reliability/

If Toyota wants back into the performance market, really wants back in.
4A.GE, 1JZ, 2JZ. Their resume is pretty strong.

They should atleast be in the early stages of development. They cant lean on Subaru forever.

CR has them at average reliability after early model year issues with frequent trunk misalignment, condensation in the tail lights. The fuel pump noise is what it is: noise.

Those engines are from another era and an inline 4 would require pretty substantial reworking of the chassis to fit in the current chassis. That would require complete redesign of the crash structures. There will never be an inline 4 in this chassis from the factory. If/when the 2nd generation comes around, we could see a Toyota engine at that time, but we will have H4s for the life of this chassis.


Sent from Tandy 400

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Quentin

Reliability hasn't been an issue for a few model years. Toyota doesn't have an engine that is appropriate for this chassis.


Sent from Tandy 400

Originally Posted by seito23

I still read some stories on the boards here of newer MY twins having engine issues. Then there's: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...S/Reliability/

If Toyota wants back into the performance market, really wants back in.
4A.GE, 1JZ, 2JZ. Their resume is pretty strong.

They should atleast be in the early stages of development. They cant lean on Subaru forever.

There were some early issues in slightly higher than normal numbers there is no disputing that.
Based purely on the posts here those issues almost completely stopped at the 2014 model year. Yes, there have been a handful but the percentage of the total cars is not enough to even call it a trend much less unreliable. A Small group of guys with horror stories (where we only hear their version at that) should not send everybody screaming into the street. Those "reliability" issues that are mentioned include such things as moisture in the tails, crickets, rattles from shifter, etc. None of these things effect how reliable the car is. There is zero concrete evidence there is any serious or ongong problems with these engines.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Quentin

CR has them at average reliability after early model year issues with frequent trunk misalignment, condensation in the tail lights. The fuel pump noise is what it is: noise.

Those engines are from another era and an inline 4 would require pretty substantial reworking of the chassis to fit in the current chassis. That would require complete redesign of the crash structures. There will never be an inline 4 in this chassis from the factory. If/when the 2nd generation comes around, we could see a Toyota engine at that time, but we will have H4s for the life of this chassis.


Sent from Tandy 400

My all time favorite engine is the Dodge 440 so I think they should be using that!

[WNDSRFR]

[QUOTE=seito23;2588531]I still read some stories on the boards here of newer MY twins having engine issues. Then there's: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...S/Reliability/

I wonder what their 2 dot reliability rating is based on? I've had virtually zero issues with my FR-S in 74,000 miles.

In the first two years of owning my 2002 VW I had just about everything break
that could break yet it was rated higher than two dots.

Or are less dots better?

[seito23]

That's exactly to my point. The next generation is what all these changes are about. From Toyotas perspective this car was there re enterance to the sports car segment. It will take time, the point is Toyota is bringing back their pedigree. I know those engine's are from a different era, not my point.

This minor revision to look more like a Toyota is a small step in product differentiation but they will slowly step away from Subaru. When they do, I am all in, sign me up. This was a joint venture because you are right about the engine. Reliability...

I still stand by my comments.. powertrain is still slightly below average for a reason.

[johan]

I do have to say.... jeez so much whining, get over yourselves....

Toyota added features and that makes them "the worst!".

+ LED headlights / tails standard
+ Updated steering wheel with controls (I always found it asinine that a car designed in this day/age didn't have them, it's so much better for driver focus)
+ Hill start assist
+ Shorter gearing
+ Power (while modest)
+ Revised front bumper that basically acts as a stock front splitter
+ Revised rear bumper with change in the exit angle of air, making it a more effective diffuser
+ Revised wheels that look to be much lighter than the 13-16 wheels
+ Revised interior trim that looks less boy-racer and more mature

These are all wins to me. They didn't have to do anything to the car other than slap a Toyota badge on it, yet they decided to add all of this. For what is a standard MMC, this is quite a lot of changes. And I welcome them all.

And guess what, you all already have your cars. Don't want to trade them in for this? Don't! But please stop complaining about what Toyota is doing to the car they created. It's so cliche to be so negative.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by Mim

I agree with you. That said If we throw the whole aging population and how people are living longer argument into the equation then perhaps Toyota is onto something with regards to your comment around the average age of a buyer!

The whole "average age" of a car buyer thing is a complex situation. This is repost for me from another thread.

The problem is "average new car buyer" which is what we are really talking about is going to skew "high" any way you look at it.

This is because there are a lot more people in the population over 30 than under and for the average to be lower you have to have a very high ratio of under 30 buying to lower the number.

Simple example, if you assume that the earliest age a person buys a car (not given one) is 18, and the oldest person to buy a car is 70, and every age in between buys the cars in equal numbers (one per year of age) then the average car buying age is 44. That's the flat average if all cars sold equally across all ages.

To raise it, only one more person more over the age of 44 has to buy a car than one person under 44. This is very likely, since there are a lot more people between 18 and 44 that either don't buy a car at all, or buy a used car.

Also, as you mention, as the population lives longer (and healthier) the average age will skew even higher since we can't lower the practical "first purchase" age but the "last purchase" age continues to slip older.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by mdm

Its 2:1 already. Those in the back are not seats, it's the rear glove box.

Sorry, I forget I'm the only 86 owner that has ever used the back seats on more than one occasion to carry passengers...

[TruRace]

I think it's human nature for some to get upset when a newer model car comes out. Everyone in here seems to be a little butthurt for reasons that I don't quite understand. I mean steering controls? Really

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by johan

I do have to say.... jeez so much whining, get over yourselves....

Toyota added features and that makes them "the worst!".

+ LED headlights / tails standard
+ Updated steering wheel with controls (I always found it asinine that a car designed in this day/age didn't have them, it's so much better for driver focus)
+ Hill start assist
+ Shorter gearing
+ Power (while modest)
+ Revised front bumper that basically acts as a stock front splitter
+ Revised rear bumper with change in the exit angle of air, making it a more effective diffuser
+ Revised wheels that look to be much lighter than the 13-16 wheels
+ Revised interior trim that looks less boy-racer and more mature

These are all wins to me. They didn't have to do anything to the car other than slap a Toyota badge on it, yet they decided to add all of this. For what is a standard MMC, this is quite a lot of changes. And I welcome them all.

And guess what, you all already have your cars. Don't want to trade them in for this? Don't! But please stop complaining about what Toyota is doing to the car they created. It's so cliche to be so negative.

I can only speak for myself, but none of these items, except maybe the "power boost"ish and the headlight change is of real interest to me. I consider the remaining items a detraction from not an improvement to the original. The new nose is the only piece that would have probably kept me from buying this "refresh" if it were the original version.

Also, all of that comes at a price I suspect. I would not have purchased the FR-S in 2012 if it had been more than $26,000. I felt it was a good deal for the price. Any more, and I would have moved up to my second choice. More tech (which a lot of this is) means more cost. Maybe Toyota will surprise us...

Originally Posted by TruRace

I think it's human nature for some to get upset when a newer model car comes out. Everyone in here seems to be a little butthurt for reasons that I don't quite understand. I mean steering controls? Really

I actually don't have a problem with the steering controls, could take or leave them. However, I do think if they were going to do them they should have made them at least look integrated rather than bolted on. Heck, my 2004 Suburban has better integrated steering controls on them than this afterthought looking thing.

[daiheadjai]

Originally Posted by johan

I do have to say.... jeez so much whining, get over yourselves....

Toyota added features and that makes them "the worst!".

+ LED headlights / tails standard
+ Updated steering wheel with controls (I always found it asinine that a car designed in this day/age didn't have them, it's so much better for driver focus)
+ Hill start assist totally unnecessary for the majority of drivers - we already have hill start assist in the form of the hand brake
+ Shorter gearingAre we sure it's shorter gearing? Some seem to think a taller 2nd gear is in place to allow hitting 60mph in one shift instead of 2
+ Power (while modest)Always good
+ Revised front bumper that basically acts as a stock front splitterDo we know this is anything more than a cosmetic benefit?
+ Revised rear bumper with change in the exit angle of air, making it a more effective diffuserAs above: Do we know this is anything more than a cosmetic benefit?
+ Revised wheels that look to be much lighter than the 13-16 wheelsNo argument - I like these new wheels
+ Revised interior trim that looks less boy-racer and more mature

These are all wins to me. They didn't have to do anything to the car other than slap a Toyota badge on it, yet they decided to add all of this. For what is a standard MMC, this is quite a lot of changes. And I welcome them all.

And guess what, you all already have your cars. Don't want to trade them in for this? Don't! But please stop complaining about what Toyota is doing to the car they created. It's so cliche to be so negative.

I think the big issue here is that, Toyota went and fixed things that weren't broken (the looks, the steering wheel), while largely ignoring the things that people actively wanted changed (i.e. lack of power - though I'm one of those who thinks the power we have is plenty enough).
In the process, they took what had been a great (if flawed) execution, and added more flaws (albeit subjective ones such as looks and the steering wheel) without fixing the existing flaws (of course, there's the chance that they took out the torque dip).

The big worry is that if these changes don't succeed in getting more buyers, these cars might be put out to pasture (again), and who knows how long it will take before Toyota (or another major OEM) ventures into the RWD lightweight compact sports car niche again?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by johan

I do have to say.... jeez so much whining, get over yourselves....

Toyota added features and that makes them "the worst!".

+ LED headlights / tails standard Let's pretend to be a Lexus
+ Updated steering wheel with controls (I always found it asinine that a car designed in this day/age didn't have them, it's so much better for driver focus) Because the 5 inches to the radio controls and the .5 seconds to turn a volume knob is so distracting
+ Hill start assist Don't object to this one other than it trains yet another generation to let the car do all the work
+ Shorter gearing Good change maybe
+ Power (while modest) Really?
+ Revised front bumper that basically acts as a stock front splitter For those blistering speeds these cars reach
+ Revised rear bumper with change in the exit angle of air, making it a more effective diffuser See above
+ Revised wheels that look to be much lighter than the 13-16 wheels I can not tell weight from pictures Most "enthusiasts" will change anyway just because they are stock
+ Revised interior trim that looks less boy-racer and more mature See all my previous posts

These are all wins to me. They didn't have to do anything to the car other than slap a Toyota badge on it, yet they decided to add all of this. For what is a standard MMC, this is quite a lot of changes. And I welcome them all.

And guess what, you all already have your cars. Don't want to trade them in for this? Don't! But please stop complaining about what Toyota is doing to the car they created. It's so cliche to be so negative.

So people that don't like it are whining? We can't express our opinion? Only the people that like it should speak up?
Come on dude this is the real world and people don't like the same things and say so. Great you like it. There will be plenty that do and I am happy for them. I am not trying to tell anybody else they shouldn't like it nor am I saying that they should have made changes that I would like. I am not part of the "everybody gets a ribbon" generation and if I don't like things I will say so. Most of us that don't like the changes have stated exactly why WE don't like them and our opinions are just as valid as yours.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Sorry, I forget I'm the only 86 owner that has ever used the back seats on more than one occasion to carry passengers...

No you are not. My grandsons ride back there all the time. And my daughter did. Once.

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No you are not. My grandsons ride back there all the time. And my daughter did. Once.

I've only carried the grand daughter back there once. I tore them out so I could save weight then decided to add honda del sol/350z style storage compartments instead