2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[cyde01]

i lived through toyopocalypse 1 when they sissified the MR2, killed the Supra, and turned the Celica into a goblin looking thing so i get the paranoia. but with Tada-san and Akio Toyoda at the helm, i just don't see this happening. and certainly not with the updates we've seen so far, the changes have been so minor that they aren't really a good indication of the car going in one direction or the other. the way the car's been marketed, i see this car more like a S2000 or a Miata that will stay true to it's roots over the years(although staying true to it's roots resulted in the S2000 getting cancelled lol). but anyway no way of knowing until it happens.

edit: wait, he's retiring? we're doomed!

[KalbiCool88]

I think Tada San has his inputs in for sure, but Toyota is the one that really has the final say in things.

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I have to wonder even if he is still involved, he is all in on 2.0 and this one, as you say, is all in marketing's hands.

Ya, no company will keep a Chief Engineer and his team working on model year changes no matter how much they hyped up that this was his "dream". That is business suicide. He has moved on to bigger and better projects by now.Sure they may throw him up as a spokesman once in a while but you can be the has very little to do with the car now.
I know it is blasphemy on this forum to say anything about him but he did not do this car all on his own and he reports to people that have much bigger agendas than one low volume model. All the pre introduction hype and hoopla played him up to a much higher status then he actually holds in Toyota as a whole I am sure.


Edit: And since I took too long to type this @Guff both supported and defeated my statement in one post!

[KalbiCool88]

Nissan is holding back for sure. The new GTR is on its way to make an appearance soon. But somewhere the Z got lost. There was rumors of it downsizing but the corp reps are keeping everything hush hush - or they just don't know lol

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[cyde01]

but but but, his boss is Akio Toyoda?

[Mim]

In Australia we have a mono spec BRZ and two spec's of 86 being the GT and GTS. The US, on the other hand, went the opposite direction so I'm curious to see whether Toyota USA will use the demise of Scion to reposition the 86 as a more mature product and offer two grades.

This way they can spread appeal wider by catering for people that want a simpler basic spec and then a fully loaded one for people that are happy to pay more. The two grade model appears to have worked well in AU where I see pretty much a 50/50 mix on the road. I say this because if you take a step back and consider what we can see of the new model (so far) it certainly appears to be fuller featured than the FRS was at launch.

A two grade model would help address a concern from some posters that the facelift will be heavier due to features they simply don't care about ie the more things to break in the long run club. That said the car's been out for a solid couple of years and seems to be holding together well (from what I've been reading). Personally I like having useless things like heated seats, folding mirrors and push start buttons. Looking forward to what other useless features they will add in this update

If we recall way back in the beginning it was said that revisions of the car will be made in such a way that new components will be retro gradable onto older cars so all I'm seeing is more options for people, that already have an older car, to personalize theirs with.

The twins, in some twisted way, remind me of Lego. As Lego's original patient ran out they adapted by introducing new model kits that have components no one else has in order to keep themselves relevant and look at them now, going stronger than ever.

The biggest take away for me, in seeing this face lift is (whether you like the styling or not) a commitment from Toyota to stick with the platform for years to come. This to me personally is critically important as I have deeply fallen in love with the twins and want to be safe in the knowledge that when it comes time for me to update to a new car I'll still have the option to buy a brand new twin and not have to hunt round for a used example because the platform was discontinued.

[mdm]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Ultimately we will know its all over by the "cup holder to seat" ratio. Right now, if you count the "water bottle" holders in the door it's 1 to 1 which is bad enough.

Its 2:1 already. Those in the back are not seats, it's the rear glove box.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cyde01

i lived through toyopocalypse 1 when they sissified the MR2, killed the Supra, and turned the Celica into a goblin looking thing so i get the paranoia. but with Tada-san and Akio Toyoda at the helm, i just don't see this happening. and certainly not with the updates we've seen so far, the changes have been so minor that they aren't really a good indication of the car going in one direction or the other. the way the car's been marketed, i see this car more like a S2000 or a Miata that will stay true to it's roots over the years(although staying true to it's roots resulted in the S2000 getting cancelled lol). but anyway no way of knowing until it happens.

edit: wait, he's retiring? we're doomed!

Like I said in my other post it isn't the individual changes that have convinced me where the car is headed it is the sum total and nature of those changes. It is simply moving to meet the current desires of the majority of the general car buyer. This by default means that it will move away from the desires of the average car enthusiast (read as 'cuz race car bro) since we are not the majority but simply a rather vocal minority.

[GhostRai]

I find the headlights and tail-lights interesting. The headlights now have the turn signals, and the rear tail-lights look to have that LED light on the top as the passive brake light and turn signal strip right under that. Maybe the entire surround of the red part will light up when the brakes are pressed. Also I just noticed the change in the rear diffuser. As not being a owner of a twin yet, I'd like to think I have a slightly less biased opinion on the looks. The exterior changes I can deal with, it makes the car look more "modern" with the larger grill and LED's everywhere. As for the interior, I can't stand that steering wheel it just looks so cheap. But at least no one will have to worry about steering wheel peel and tail-light condensation (I don't even remember the last time I heard about that though..)

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Like I said in my other post it isn't the individual changes that have convinced me where the car is headed it is the sum total and nature of those changes. It is simply moving to meet the current desires of the majority of the general car buyer. This by default means that it will move away from the desires of the average car enthusiast (read as 'cuz race car bro) since we are not the majority but simply a rather vocal minority.

and the sum total and nature of the changes of a few suspension tweaks, buttons on the steering, hill assist, and an ugly bumper convinced you they're gonna focus on the majority and enthusiasts are slowly gonna be ignored?

i don't wanna be annoying and keep arguing the same point without adding new input, but you don't think that sounds a little ridiculous? lol

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by cyde01

but but but, his boss is Akio Toyoda?

Do not read as angry! Can't say this without it sounding sarcastic. It isn't I promise.
Not sure if you know how these companies work. Akio Toyoda may seem to be the boss but he is simply the Chairman of the Board of Directors. They could can his butt at any time. He is accountable to the board and the board is accountable to the Shareholders.
Not a single move happens without the consent of the whole Board and the Board will only do what is best for the shareholders. People that are not in the industry tend to think that there is one guy "in charge" but I assure you that just is not the way it is. Just the simple seeming action of dropping Scion would have been a massive process and taken at least year (probably more like 3 or 4) by the time it went through all the levels. The thought of one guy sitting behind a desk giving orders is easy to picture the reality of how things are done is a convoluted nightmare.


How Toyota is controlled:

[Mim]

Originally Posted by cyde01

and the sum total and nature of the changes of a few suspension tweaks, buttons on the steering, hill assist, and an ugly bumper convinced you they're gonna focus on the majority and enthusiasts are slowly gonna be ignored?

i don't wanna be annoying and keep arguing the same point without adding new input, but you don't think that sounds a little ridiculous? lol

What exactly were you expecting from a mild update?

[cyde01]

Originally Posted by Mim

What exactly were you expecting from a mild update?

i was actually expecting it to be even uglier based on the spy pics, and was pleasantly surprised! lol i don't know what everyone else was expecting..

[jg7]

First impressions:

Well, I actually don’t mind the grill/bumper too much. But if I’m looking at the pictures right, the fog/parking lot fixtures are kind of a reversed angle. To me that’s just, well, yuck (kind of ruins the intended lines of the car – for me anyway).

Wheels look better than the older models (that’s good), but still not a big fan (just personal preference).

I do wonder what the gearing will be like and how much that extra 5 HP is going to cost $$. Could make an impact if done well.

One of the selling points to me was the steering wheel; the new one, not so much.

Oh, and maybe it will be lighter. Fat chance I know, but they can start by removing the engine noise maker (growler tube).

Have to see one in person though, and as long as it’s still a blast to drive, it will do okay and fill its intended mission.

It’s not a disaster by any means, but I have no regrets getting my 2016 - whew!