follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Engine, Exhaust, Transmission

Engine, Exhaust, Transmission Discuss the FR-S | 86 | BRZ engine, exhaust and drivetrain.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-01-2018, 07:27 PM   #29
reeves
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 1,021
Thanks: 289
Thanked 397 Times in 265 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
It begs the question of if the bracket change is also part of the upgrade. Perhaps the old one with the notched brackets (like mine) allowed the bearing to angle to one side. The damage to mine very clearly shows it was twisted in there and I just attributed it to the overheat but looking at the much more robust brackets makes me wonder if more was st work in the failure. If only the lube was at fault why such a big change to the brackets?
I thought that at first but my car is a '13 model. Doesn't make sense for them to use the old-brackets bearing after they started using the new-brackets bearing a year before.

Then again, I can see billy bob on the assembly line plugging the old bearing into the tranny without giving it a second thought lol
reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2018, 08:26 PM   #30
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
I thought that at first but my car is a '13 model. Doesn't make sense for them to use the old-brackets bearing after they started using the new-brackets bearing a year before.

Then again, I can see billy bob on the assembly line plugging the old bearing into the tranny without giving it a second thought lol
I am not sure where the confusion came up but the first bearing (like mine) was used from 2013 to late 2016. Every single one I have seen pictures of and the 4 my dealer had in stock had the notched tabs.





I can 100% guarantee that there are no big buckets of random parts at the Subaru plant that Billy Bob (Kaito Saro?) could grab the wrong bearing from. They are a just in time, Kan Ban facility and if they need a stock of 100 an hour there are only 100 an hour on the floor. There will be zero old stock kicking around.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
reeves (08-01-2018)
Old 08-01-2018, 08:37 PM   #31
reeves
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 1,021
Thanks: 289
Thanked 397 Times in 265 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
I am not sure where the confusion came up but the first bearing (like mine) was used from 2013 to late 2016. Every single one I have seen pictures of and the 4 my dealer had in stock had the notched tabs.

I can 100% guarantee that there are no big buckets of random parts at the Subaru plant that Billy Bob (Kaito Saro?) could grab the wrong bearing from. They are a just in time, Kan Ban facility and if they need a stock of 100 an hour there are only 100 an hour on the floor. There will be zero old stock kicking around.
100% or not, my car's a year older than yours, and I had the UN-notched tabs (updated tabs).
Maybe its just Canadian 86's..?

Anyway, I'm just kidding about Billy Bob being on the assembly line....
Maybe he's upstairs managing parts inventory lol
reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to reeves For This Useful Post:
Tcoat (08-01-2018)
Old 08-01-2018, 08:49 PM   #32
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
100% or not, my car's a year older than yours, and I had the UN-notched tabs (updated tabs).
Maybe its just Canadian 86's..?

Anyway, I'm just kidding about Billy Bob being on the assembly line....
Maybe he's upstairs managing parts inventory lol
Sorry I misread what you said and thought you said yours was the same as mine.
Did a quick look at some pics and there seems to be a very eclectic mix of the two tabs across the early years. Maybe two suppliers of the same part?
I made the dealer order in the new part number and it had the solid tabs unlike their old stock that had the notched ones.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
reeves (08-01-2018)
Old 08-01-2018, 09:02 PM   #33
reeves
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 1,021
Thanks: 289
Thanked 397 Times in 265 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Yea I'm sure they were just trying to fill orders of the high demand for this car back then. Whatever part "fit" was suitable to use. Both types had the failed grease in them anyway, wouldn't have made a difference which one you got.
reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to reeves For This Useful Post:
Tcoat (08-01-2018)
Old 08-01-2018, 09:16 PM   #34
VerusEric
 
VerusEric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: BRZ, STI, GT350R, Supra, 987.2
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,146
Thanks: 567
Thanked 2,529 Times in 780 Posts
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
The tabs you guys are speaking of are purely for holding springs from the TOB to the clutch fork. These springs are used to reduce noise and hold no performance benefit to my knowledge. The springs ensure that constant contact from TOB to fork is kept *when the clutch is disengaged* (no load) to reduce and eliminate a rattling noise.

The WRX clutch and fork do not even use these springs.

I've probably seen seven to eight, 2013-2016 TOBs and they have all had the solid tabs. The tab'd portion also is just one piece of the assembly; in which they (Toyobaru) could use any bearing on the inside regardless of which tab piece they chose out of the bucket.

At the end of the day; I trust what the TSB states after testing the greases first hand and reading about the various common greases the bearing manufacturer can use.

Thanks,
Eric
VerusEric is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to VerusEric For This Useful Post:
RallySTI (08-02-2018), reeves (08-01-2018), smg1138 (01-23-2021), Tcoat (08-01-2018)
Old 08-01-2018, 09:24 PM   #35
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
Yea I'm sure they were just trying to fill orders of the high demand for this car back then. Whatever part "fit" was suitable to use. Both types had the failed grease in them anyway, wouldn't have made a difference which one you got.
Ya that could very well be it. Slightly different parts but same part number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VerusEric View Post
The tabs you guys are speaking of are purely for holding springs from the TOB to the clutch fork. These springs are used to reduce noise and hold no performance benefit to my knowledge. The springs ensure that constant contact from TOB to fork is kept *when the clutch is disengaged* (no load) to reduce and eliminate a rattling noise.

The WRX clutch and fork do not even use these springs.

I've probably seen seven to eight, 2013-2016 TOBs and they have all had the solid tabs. The tab'd portion also is just one piece of the assembly; in which they (Toyobaru) could use any bearing on the inside regardless of which tab piece they chose out of the bucket.

At the end of the day; I trust what the TSB states after testing the greases first hand and reading about the various common greases the bearing manufacturer can use.

Thanks,
Eric
Ya I was just throwing that out there. The spring not being held properly and allowing the bearing to twist was what I meant. Could even have been due to the heat. I just found it odd that how mine was so badly misaligned and there were two different tabs.

Never had any doubt the grease was the issue but your experiment sealed it for me. Not arguing or disputing your results in any way just exploring some possibilities. If the parts were mixed for all years then that avenue of speculation is closed.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2018, 10:42 PM   #36
MrDinkleman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Drives: 2016 Oceanic, "base" model
Location: Gardena, CA
Posts: 398
Thanks: 129
Thanked 179 Times in 128 Posts
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Will the dealership install the updated bearing for free or reduced price under the TSB for cars out of warranty? I purchased my 2016 in Oct 2015. I was quoted $1600 to replace it (12 hours labor flat rate)!!! But I didn't mention the TSB.
My TOB is starting to squeak/squeal when the engine is cold but quiets down after it is warmed up. How long before it completely goes? I have 77k miles on it now... I have a trip to Vegas planned in 1-1/2 weeks and I don't want to break down in the middle of the desert...
TIA
MrDinkleman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 01:09 AM   #37
reeves
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Drives: BRZ
Location: ATL, GA
Posts: 1,021
Thanks: 289
Thanked 397 Times in 265 Posts
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDinkleman View Post
My TOB is starting to squeak/squeal when the engine is cold but quiets down after it is warmed up. How long before it completely goes? I have 77k miles on it now... I have a trip to Vegas planned in 1-1/2 weeks and I don't want to break down in the middle of the desert...
TIA
I drove for at least 600-700 miles on mines before replacing it. I think as long as it still quiets down once the engine warms up, it won't completely wreck your tranny.

Everything still looked "good" inside my tranny. No burns, warping or discoloration of the metal. Only the TOB looked worn, but not warped/bent.. And it was still spinning freely & easily. It just didn't spin "quietly", which means the grease was probably breaking down but not completely yet.

If I were you though, no need to keep driving on it.. I'd just rent a car to go to Vegas.
reeves is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to reeves For This Useful Post:
MrDinkleman (08-02-2018)
Old 08-02-2018, 03:30 AM   #38
Spec C Wannabe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Drives: 2017 WRB M/T BRZ
Location: BKK, Thailand
Posts: 114
Thanks: 77
Thanked 37 Times in 24 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by VerusEric View Post
I spent about an hour disassembling (2) TOBs today; one 2013-2016 and one 2017+. Below are some pictures along the way with what I found; along with some research I did regarding the PNs and bearing manufacturer.



As a final "test" (read, not super scientific but it's something I could do); I took a heat gun to the two greases still in the cover. The 2013-2016 grease began to boil significantly, about 1/3 of the circumference was boiling in the picture above. The white grease did not seem to be as affected by the heat. When I turned the heat gun off, the 2013-2016 grease smoked while the 2017+ grease did not.

I believe Toyobaru honestly found the issue to be caused by grease degradation at this point. They issued a TSB for it, they updated the bearing for all 2017+ units, and the greases physically look and act differently.

Thanks,
Eric
How old is the specimen? Could it be that the sample of used TOB you got is so old that the grease property has already deteriorated?

I mean 2013-2016 TOB unused VS 2017+ TOB unused should be a more comparable match.
Spec C Wannabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 04:56 AM   #39
churchx
Senior Member
 
churchx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Drives: 2014 GT86
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 4,333
Thanks: 696
Thanked 2,085 Times in 1,436 Posts
Mentioned: 53 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
I guess 2013-2016 unused TOB can be got only by ordering new. Imho it makes little sense to buy one just for sake of unassembling/comparison, instead of buying latest revision TOB for actual use.
churchx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 06:30 AM   #40
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeves View Post
I drove for at least 600-700 miles on mines before replacing it. I think as long as it still quiets down once the engine warms up, it won't completely wreck your tranny.

Everything still looked "good" inside my tranny. No burns, warping or discoloration of the metal. Only the TOB looked worn, but not warped/bent.. And it was still spinning freely & easily. It just didn't spin "quietly", which means the grease was probably breaking down but not completely yet.

If I were you though, no need to keep driving on it.. I'd just rent a car to go to Vegas.
I drove about 5,000 miles after mine started making the noise. It still quieted down when it warmed up right up to the minute it blew and took out everything. If I had changed it early like you did all would have been fine.
The sooner it is changed the less likely you are to have catastrophic failure like I did.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
MrDinkleman (08-02-2018)
Old 08-02-2018, 06:31 AM   #41
Tcoat
Senior Member
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 69,845
Thanks: 61,656
Thanked 108,283 Times in 46,456 Posts
Mentioned: 2494 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrDinkleman View Post
Will the dealership install the updated bearing for free or reduced price under the TSB for cars out of warranty? I purchased my 2016 in Oct 2015. I was quoted $1600 to replace it (12 hours labor flat rate)!!! But I didn't mention the TSB.
My TOB is starting to squeak/squeal when the engine is cold but quiets down after it is warmed up. How long before it completely goes? I have 77k miles on it now... I have a trip to Vegas planned in 1-1/2 weeks and I don't want to break down in the middle of the desert...
TIA
That is up to them. Some have been reported to but that is pretty rare.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
MrDinkleman (08-02-2018)
Old 08-02-2018, 12:38 PM   #42
Ultramaroon
義理チョコ
 
Ultramaroon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Drives: a 13 e8h frs
Location: vantucky, wa
Posts: 31,825
Thanks: 52,063
Thanked 36,469 Times in 18,894 Posts
Mentioned: 1106 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec C Wannabe View Post
How old is the specimen? Could it be that the sample of used TOB you got is so old that the grease property has already deteriorated?

I mean 2013-2016 TOB unused VS 2017+ TOB unused should be a more comparable match.
That grease was fine. It's pretty obvious when grease goes south.
__________________
Ultramaroon is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ultramaroon For This Useful Post:
Tcoat (08-02-2018)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Throw out bearing Hyp Northern California 26 03-13-2017 11:42 PM
Post If You Have Had Your Throw-Out Bearing Go Bad! Bushhy Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 8 10-24-2016 05:34 PM
Throw-out bearing mhigham Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 71 08-18-2016 10:21 AM
Noisy throw out bearing jp_r6 Issues | Warranty | Recalls / TSB 23 08-18-2016 04:45 AM
throw out bearing clips... Shit Luck Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 0 04-12-2014 06:34 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.