Official Formula 1 thread

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Damn Ferrari has made my favorite driver decide to retire after this season.

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I read he wants to finish out the contract which is one more season after this.

After his uneventful last year at Ferrari the first time around (I remember Trulli and Fisi gave him a run for his money) I don't have much hope that his input on the next years car will bring him too much closer to Alonso and I doubt he'll stick around unless he starts having fun (winning). I'll be surprised if Ferrari kicks him to the curb after only one (expensive) year with the only guy to give them a championship in the last 10 years.

Raikkonen has been treated as someone near legend status, but objectively speaking it's closer to someone very talented, often disappointing with some flashes of sheer genius, a driver that will be lost to the history books unlike Hamilton, Vettel and Alonso.

Coincidentally I always find it funny when the commentators say "The two Ferrari champions", the past 10 years have been a bit rough for the Italians.

[cfusionpm]

I'll be surprised if Ferrari kicks him to the curb after only one (expensive) year with the only guy to give them a championship in the last 10 years.

To be fair, if the Ferrari chassis wasn't such a piece of garbage, Alonso would have given them at least two championships.

[rice_classic]

I think David Hobbs illustrated my opinion of Vettel pretty damn well:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO9dMZjKi14"]Vettel's dad is going to beat up Alonso's dad - YouTube[/ame]

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

To be fair, if the Ferrari chassis wasn't such a piece of garbage, Alonso would have given them at least two championships.

And if Raikkonen had stayed at Mclaren one more year with either teammate or Alonso at Ferrari, Ferrari could have zero championships since 2004, if we're revising history that's much more feasible than coming up with a non-existant chassis. If memory serves Mclaren was the class of the field in '07 it was Hamilton and Alonso's infighting and one easily avoidable mistake that delivered the championship to Ferrari.

My only point is that Raikkonen is extremely capable even if he's underperforming in comparison, first year with a team rarely goes so swimmingly as '07 for Hamilton/Raikkonen or '09 Vettel. Unless a replacement shows up with a fat sack of cash to buy out the contract I think he'll ride out the next year unless he's become entirely despondent to the team. The only driver who pops to mind is Bottas but I don't get the feeling those pockets are so deep.

With plenty of capable drivers and engineers frothing at the chance for a top tier team Ferrari can buy a lot of R&D and talent with 10 million Euros...

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

And if Raikkonen had stayed at Mclaren one more year with either teammate or Alonso at Ferrari, Ferrari could have zero championships since 2004, if we're revising history that's much more feasible than coming up with a non-existant chassis. If memory serves Mclaren was the class of the field in '07 it was Hamilton and Alonso's infighting and one easily avoidable mistake that delivered the championship to Ferrari.

My only point is that Raikkonen is extremely capable even if he's underperforming in comparison, first year with a team rarely goes so swimmingly as '07 for Hamilton/Raikkonen or '09 Vettel. Unless a replacement shows up with a fat sack of cash to buy out the contract I think he'll ride out the next year unless he's become entirely despondent to the team. The only driver who pops to mind is Bottas but I don't get the feeling those pockets are so deep.

With plenty of capable drivers and engineers frothing at the chance for a top tier team Ferrari can buy a lot of R&D and talent with 10 million Euros...

But the fault of Ferrari not winning championships isn't Alonso's fault, it's Ferrari. He's probably the most talented driver out there, at least when he's not in a top tier car, and he's shown that over and over again. Especially yesterday when he passed Vettel relatively easily, then it took Vettel something like 10+ laps with 2 DRS zones to finally get by him by late braking off the track limits.

Raikkonen is a lot like Vettel, if he's in a car he's comfortable in, he performs excellently. It requires a mix of confidence and zen. Alonso said it best when he said "I don't care what the car feels like, I just want a fast car." And he's shown plenty of times he can stay in contention with a garbage car. Imagine what he could do in a GOOD car?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

But the fault of Ferrari not winning championships isn't Alonso's fault, it's Ferrari. He's probably the most talented driver out there, at least when he's not in a top tier car, and he's shown that over and over again. Especially yesterday when he passed Vettel relatively easily, then it took Vettel something like 10+ laps with 2 DRS zones to finally get by him by late braking off the track limits.

Raikkonen is a lot like Vettel, if he's in a car he's comfortable in, he performs excellently. It requires a mix of confidence and zen. Alonso said it best when he said "I don't care what the car feels like, I just want a fast car." And he's shown plenty of times he can stay in contention with a garbage car. Imagine what he could do in a GOOD car?

I am entirely in agreement with you. I am however confused about your point, I never questioned Alonso's abilities and he is unarguably one of the top 3 drivers on the grid today and for the last 10 years.

I'm not sure how Ferrari's incapability of developing a competitive chassis recently reflects on Alonso's driving ability. If we're playing "What-ifs" then Brawn would have been punished for the double diffuser in '09 and Vettel would be a 5 time champion, Mclaren would have finished every race giving Raikkonen championships in '03 & '05, Hamilton could have been brought in one lap earlier in China '07 winning his debut season championship leaving Ferrari with no championships since 2004 and Raikkonen still championshipless. Of course giving Alonso a magically 'better' chassis in hindsight would give him better results and more championships. The same can be said for literally any driver on the grid from Chilton to Perez to Button to Hamilton and everyone in between.

Edit: except Maldonado, the fastest chassis on the grid is useless if you ball it up 25% of the time

Edit 2: I'm saying Raikkonen will likely stay next year, he's a solid driver but I'm not expecting improvement based on history, there isn't a shining star replacement that will make Ferrari money next year.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I am entirely in agreement with you. I am however confused about your point, I never questioned Alonso's abilities and he is unarguably one of the top 3 drivers on the grid today and for the last 10 years.

I'm not sure how Ferrari's incapability of developing a competitive chassis recently reflects on Alonso's driving ability. If we're playing "What-ifs" then Brawn would have been punished for the double diffuser in '09 and Vettel would be a 5 time champion, Mclaren would have finished every race giving Raikkonen championships in '03 & '05, Hamilton could have been brought in one lap earlier in China '07 winning his debut season championship leaving Ferrari with no championships since 2004 and Raikkonen still championshipless. Of course giving Alonso a magically 'better' chassis in hindsight would give him better results and more championships. The same can be said for literally any driver on the grid from Chilton to Perez to Button to Hamilton and everyone in between.

Edit: except Maldonado, the fastest chassis on the grid is useless if you ball it up 25% of the time

Edit 2: I'm saying Raikkonen will likely stay next year, he's a solid driver but I'm not expecting improvement based on history, there isn't a shining star replacement that will make Ferrari money next year.

My mistake! We're on the same page, I must have read something wrong.

[cfusionpm]

Also a thought, after all the clamouring about how this would be a boring season.... it's actually been pretty exciting so far, especially with races like England, Canada, and Bahrain. There's actually a scrap at the front instead of one person, and lots of fighting from behind Mercedes. I'm reconsidering buying tickets for Austin after the last few races, and might actually end up going.

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Edit 2: I'm saying Raikkonen will likely stay next year, he's a solid driver but I'm not expecting improvement based on history, there isn't a shining star replacement that will make Ferrari money next year.

I sure hope so. I haven't read anything yet on how badly he was hurt in that crash on Sunday either. I bet if Kimi was in a Mercedes powered car he would be right up there battling for third each weekend. The Ferrari is probably only the 4th or 5th best chassis on the grid right now and Alonso's familiarity with it is helping him have better results as he wheels it each weekend while Kimi has been struggling to come to grips with it. Throw a Mercedes power unit in your car and your chassis matters much less

[rice_classic]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I sure hope so. I haven't read anything yet on how badly he was hurt in that crash on Sunday either.

Just a bruised ankle. Hobbs updated this during the race. Kimi will race the next race.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by King Tut

I bet if Kimi was in a Mercedes powered car he would be right up there battling for third each weekend. The Ferrari is probably only the 4th or 5th best chassis on the grid right now and Alonso's familiarity with it is helping him have better results as he wheels it each weekend while Kimi has been struggling to come to grips with it. Throw a Mercedes power unit in your car and your chassis matters much less

Raikkonen's familiarity with his car also helped him win his championsh- oh wait no it didn't.

The only teams consistently capable of putting two cars in contention for 3rd are Red Bull and Williams over the past three races. I won't speculate any further on that because it's a landmine, but I will say that Raikkonen isn't fairing much better than Massa did against Alonso, sure he could pick up some pace as he settles and the season develops but all we can do is wait and see and hope it's cheaper for Ferrari to keep him next year than buy him out.

I have a hunch Ferrari will finally bring in new blood for 2016 point, between Grosjean, Bottas, Hulkenburg, a couple unexpected picks that wouldn't say no and development drivers that haven't hit the spotlight yet, Maranello has been quite stale. But what the hell do I know, we all thought they'd do it this season and then they signed a guy they already fired once before.

[WolfpackS2k]

This season has been rather exciting. I just wish they would give us back engines worth a damn and lay off the damn "green" initiative. This is the pinnacle of motorsports, after all. Not something meant to appease The Green Party.


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[Silver Ignition]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

This season has been rather exciting. I just wish they would give us back engines worth a damn and lay off the damn "green" initiative. This is the pinnacle of motorsports, after all. Not something meant to appease The Green Party.


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You don't get more pinnacle than Turbo 1.6L V6 Hybrids that do close to 300km/hr.

Sure beats Nascar in terms of technological advancements...

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

This season has been rather exciting. I just wish they would give us back engines worth a damn and lay off the damn "green" initiative. This is the pinnacle of motorsports, after all. Not something meant to appease The Green Party.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They could fix pretty much all their "problems" by removing the fuel flow limit.