Combating the heat

[AJPG]

Of course if you have less power the car should be way easier to handle, that's not new... On any platform, including but not limited to car, truck, SUB, bikes, bicycles, planes and boats!

About heat management on hot climate, well that's a obvious issue. The end

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by The Racers Line

I have actually had the same result!

I could only muster a 1:30 at Thill West. Thumbs up to you sir! (watched your video) You are way past ready for 86cup. Now to convince NCRC.

[ultra]

Thread has been very valuable. At this point I'm curious what comes next after combating the heat?

Hypothetically speaking: You've done the suspension, added more grip, stuck on bigger brakes and added boost. End result is one heck of a fast car that runs hot.

So you run down the heat management list: oil cooler goes on first, turbo blankets/shielding (depending on FI setup) then a vented hood. After that maybe a bigger radiator. By this point you've got one heck of a fast car that won't overheat any more.

So now you've solved the heat problems and are able to run tons of laps. You're pulling a TON of Gs lap after lap in a car with no dry sump and which can also experience fuel surge at less than 3/4 of a tank.

I'm N/A and have a JR oil cooler which alone has controlled my temps nicely. I've already decided to stick with lower grip street tires on track though because I was easily pulling over 1.3Gs on R comps at which point I was beginning to experience fuel surge and possible oil starvation issues were beginning to worry me. Throwing FI on top of all that seems suicidal. Higher possibility of catastrophic engine failures and all.

Not meaning to offend anyone - just seems to me that reliably tracking a boosted version of this car is looking like one heck of a deep rabbit hole.

Assuming great ways to manage heat (plenty in this thread) what comes next? Happy to be educated.

[mkivsoopra]

Originally Posted by ultra

Thread has been very valuable. At this point I'm curious what comes next after combating the heat?

Hypothetically speaking: You've done the suspension, added more grip, stuck on bigger brakes and added boost. End result is one heck of a fast car that runs hot.

So you run down the heat management list: oil cooler goes on first, turbo blankets/shielding (depending on FI setup) then a vented hood. After that maybe a bigger radiator. By this point you've got one heck of a fast car that won't overheat any more.

So now you've solved the heat problems and are able to run tons of laps. You're pulling a TON of Gs lap after lap in a car with no dry sump and which can also experience fuel surge at less than 3/4 of a tank.

I'm N/A and have an JR oil cooler which alone has controlled my temps nicely. I've already decided to stick with lower grip street tires on track though because I was easily pulling over 1.3Gs on R comps at which point fuel surge and oil starvation were beginning to worry me. Throwing FI on top of all that seems suicidal. Higher possibility of catastrophic engine failures and all.

Not meaning to offend anyone - just seems to me that reliably tracking a boosted version of this car is looking like one heck of a deep rabbit hole.

Happy to be educated.

Good post... I'm actually looking down that hole now. Car makes gobs of power without overheating and has tons of grip. I'm experiencing fuel starvation in certain corners at the track on street tires, and oil starvation is a big question mark.

[ultra]

I've seen a baffled oil pan for sale somewhere but no idea how effective that is.

Absolutely no clue on solving fuel surge issues beyond carrying a spare tank of gas around and always topping the tank up to full after every session.

[The Racers Line]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

I could only muster a 1:30 at Thill West. Thumbs up to you sir! (watched your video) You are way past ready for 86cup. Now to convince NCRC.

Haha thank you man! I loved the track. The Z4m I prepped before that same event did a 1:23.9 so I still felt slow.

I am working on NCRC though. I've got an email into Dave, so hopefully I hear back from him soon.

[Kiske]

Originally Posted by ultra

Thread has been very valuable. At this point I'm curious what comes next after combating the heat?

You drive it. Until one fateful day, you fall prey to to the boost and turn up the power. When you get to this point you hopefully had start setting aside a fund. This fund will eventually go to a built bottom-end. Truthfuly though you may be dipping into it to fund axles, trans or anything else that breaks along the way.

[Xuningshen]

Originally Posted by ultra

I've seen a baffled oil pan for sale somewhere but no idea how effective that is.

Absolutely no clue on solving fuel surge issues beyond carrying a spare tank of gas around and always topping the tank up to full after every session.

Me, not knowing anything specific about oil pan baffling, looking at whats available for our cars, there only seems to be pans that increase oil capacity. with minor baffling that apparently isn't even required because our car's "upper" pan already has some baffling in it? I've looked up(googled) other baffled pans for STI's n stuff and they have fancy traps doors and what not. So why doesn't our car have them yet? Anyone?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

Thread has been very valuable. At this point I'm curious what comes next after combating the heat?

Hypothetically speaking: You've done the suspension, added more grip, stuck on bigger brakes and added boost. End result is one heck of a fast car that runs hot.

So you run down the heat management list: oil cooler goes on first, turbo blankets/shielding (depending on FI setup) then a vented hood. After that maybe a bigger radiator. By this point you've got one heck of a fast car that won't overheat any more.

So now you've solved the heat problems and are able to run tons of laps. You're pulling a TON of Gs lap after lap in a car with no dry sump and which can also experience fuel surge at less than 3/4 of a tank.

I'm N/A and have a JR oil cooler which alone has controlled my temps nicely. I've already decided to stick with lower grip street tires on track though because I was easily pulling over 1.3Gs on R comps at which point I was beginning to experience fuel surge and possible oil starvation issues were beginning to worry me. Throwing FI on top of all that seems suicidal. Higher possibility of catastrophic engine failures and all.

Not meaning to offend anyone - just seems to me that reliably tracking a boosted version of this car is looking like one heck of a deep rabbit hole.

Assuming great ways to manage heat (plenty in this thread) what comes next? Happy to be educated.

The driver mod is always available...

[ultra]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The driver mod is always available...

If I ever end up in Cali you can school me pretty good on that bit, no doubt.

It's just kind of weird that nobody's come up with a fuel surge solution in the course of boosting and building these cars yet. It's a known issue (I think?) and these cars aren't new to being boosted anymore so I had assumed that somebody would have looked at doing stuff with fuel pumps and senders in order to address fuel starvation issues at some or other by now.

Edit: something along these lines perhaps:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fue...-kits-p39.aspx

At least the heat seems manageable but I just hope that people don't automatically equate effective heat management and a good tune with being ''Reliable', particularly when driving hard.

Tracking a car that might suddenly stutter or run lean in corners just seems like a considerable risk to keep in mind, particularly if you're boosted and can't get a blown motor replaced under warranty anymore.

Apologies if off topic; figured that surge and starvation issues are somewhat related to cooling in the 'overall reliability' sense.

[mkivsoopra]

@ultra, I know of a surge tank under development for our cars, but it hasn't been released yet.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

If I ever end up in Cali you can school me pretty good on that bit, no doubt.

It's just kind of weird that nobody's come up with a fuel surge solution in the course of boosting and building these cars yet. It's a known issue (I think?) and these cars aren't new to being boosted anymore so I had assumed that somebody would have looked at doing stuff with fuel pumps and senders in order to address fuel starvation issues at some or other by now.

Edit: something along these lines perhaps:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fue...-kits-p39.aspx

At least the heat seems manageable but I just hope that people don't automatically equate effective heat management and a good tune with being ''Reliable', particularly when driving hard.

Tracking a car that might suddenly stutter or run lean in corners just seems like a considerable risk to keep in mind, particularly if you're boosted and can't get a blown motor replaced under warranty anymore.

Apologies if off topic; figured that surge and starvation issues are somewhat related to cooling in the 'overall reliability' sense.

A few reasons. The biggest one is that there's not really a good place to locate a surge tank. We've discussed with several manufacturers, and its effectively a "racecar only" solution, whereas with other platforms like the Evo, 02-14 WRX/STI, S2k, etc, there's a way to conveniently place the surge tank without intruding in trunk or passenger cabin space. This severely limits the market for such a solution.

On the other hand, fuel starvation hasn't been a huge issue... but we're also not pushing a ton of power. We do use a large pump.

[ultra]

^ Useful, thanks man. Do you guys keep your tank topped up above a certain level too? Running R compounds with no problems?

Anyone else logging this stuff for that matter?

As far as heat goes my car's a rock solid at the moment - simple JR oil cooler completely solved high oil temp issues as per my OBDII logs. I run 0w20 or 5w30 on a stock motor. Stock tune. Track or traffic in Dubai heat - zero issuess since the oil cooler install. Oil temps rarely creep over 100 Celsius and coolant stays well in the 90s.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by ultra

^ Useful, thanks man. Do you guys keep your tank topped up above a certain level too? Running R compounds with no problems?

Anyone else logging this stuff for that matter?

As far as heat goes my car's a rock solid at the moment - simple JR oil cooler completely solved high oil temp issues as per my OBDII logs. I run 0w20 or 5w30 on a stock motor. Stock tune. Track or traffic in Dubai heat - zero issuess since the oil cooler install. Oil temps rarely creep over 100 Celsius and coolant stays well in the 90s.

Tank level depends on setup and driver skill, as well as the specific track. Anything we post would be misconstrued, since every situation is different.