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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 01-21-2013, 05:57 PM   #15
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Happened yesterday at Autox, out of right sweeper, slightly banked on camber into slalom that started off to left side of lead cone. I left foot braked and gave a pretty good stab coming up to slalom cone. Fortunately speed was being scrubbed off anyways. Changed over to right foot braking for the rest of the day and no problems.

Short discussion on SCCA Forums here on ice mode: http://www.sccaforums.com/forums/for...90/scope/posts I think that if the pedal dance does not affect the ABS system then it may not stop this from happening.

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Old 01-21-2013, 06:00 PM   #16
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Kinda bummed, but I did sort of suspect the same wheel lift or left foot braking issues I had with the VW's to be the blame here as well. Sounds like it might be. Will not get to truly test the pedal dance until next month at our test and tune. Hoping and praying it sorts itself.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:00 PM   #17
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I've driven on ice with the BRZ (don't ask... ) and actually hit ice mode several times. Almost thought I might stuff the car into a mountain at low (sub-10mph) speed.

I've yet to experience that slow, decreased braking power mode on track with the pedal dance. I have without.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:01 PM   #18
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Can't wait to try the dance.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:30 PM   #19
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Here's what I felt like doing the pedal dance:



















Here's what I looked like after I got right the first time:

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Old 01-21-2013, 08:37 PM   #20
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A good tune to dance to!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXG8wtxx_w"]Jackson 5 - ABC (Full song) - YouTube[/ame]

Do the pedal dance to this. It's all good!
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:48 PM   #21
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Bump from the dead.

so .. ICE mode huh.. Any documentation on this>
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:11 AM   #22
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I've gotten ice mode during a few runs. Do a search. It's not just our cars.

I think it happens mostly when a wheel lifts under hard braking. Pretty sure the pedal dance will not help.

I haven't gotten it lately. Not sure if it is my setup or my driving.
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Old 07-02-2014, 11:35 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
I think it happens mostly when a wheel lifts under hard braking. Pretty sure the pedal dance will not help.
Correct. Ice mode is a feature of the ABS system which does not get disabled by the pedal dance.

You're also right that wheel lift makes it worse. To prevent ice mode, do all your braking in a straight line and try not to threshold brake when you know you have one of the front wheels unloaded.
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Old 07-05-2014, 06:08 PM   #24
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Smart Stop Technology automatically reduces engine power when both pedals are pressed at the same time under certain conditions.
Smart Stop Technology intervenes when the accelerator is depressed first (Figure 1) and the brakes are applied firmly for longer than one-half second at speeds greater than five miles per hour (Figure 2).
In normal driving conditions, you won't notice Smart Stop Technology as it is imperceptible. The feature doesn't engage if the brake pedal is depressed before the accelerator pedal. This allows for vehicles starting on a steep hill to safely accelerate without rolling backward (known as hill start).
Smart Stop Technology will be installed in all new models by the end of 2010, making it one of the first full-line manufacturers to offer this braking technology as standard equipment.
[3] Smart Stop Technology operates only in the event of certain simultaneous brake and gas pedal applications. When engaged, the system will reduce engine power to help the brakes bring the vehicle to a stop. Factors including speed, road conditions and driver input can all impact stopping distance. Smart Stop Technology is not a substitute for safe and attentive driving and does not guarantee instant stopping. Please see your Owner's Manual for further details.


I first thought it may be this as i have had this happen with normal everything off and pedal dance. not so sure that it wasnt ice mode now though... http://www.scion.com/star_safety/
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:05 AM   #25
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I may have had this happen yesterday during an autox run. I was in a slalom and I fudge a heel toe to second. I was driving with the pedal dance. It felt like the car just slid forward and didn't slow as expected for the last cone and I ended up plowing into it.

I kind of want to do some data logging on this, but that would take some CAN sniffing and such (I do have a project that is doing some CAN stuff right now...but it would take a lot of work.)
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:22 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mla163 View Post
I've gotten ice mode during a few runs. Do a search. It's not just our cars.

I think it happens mostly when a wheel lifts under hard braking. Pretty sure the pedal dance will not help.

I haven't gotten it lately. Not sure if it is my setup or my driving.
It happens to me every autox event at the lot I run, very very frustrating. Its always when you start braking over uneven pavement with the cars suspension unloaded on one side.

I could do 3 runs identical and 4th run just hit some pavement imperfection wrong and the car goes ice mode right into a wall of cones.
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:26 PM   #27
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It happens to me every autox event at the lot I run, very very frustrating. Its always when you start braking over uneven pavement with the cars suspension unloaded on one side.

I could do 3 runs identical and 4th run just hit some pavement imperfection wrong and the car goes ice mode right into a wall of cones.
I'm assuming you're lifting a rear?

We have VSC kick in with a 5 second hold on bad surfaces under throttle, but I haven't needed to brake on that type of surface.

Do you or anyone else have datalogs showing wheel speeds?

See: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68310
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Old 07-07-2014, 02:44 PM   #28
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Has anyone else gone for the brakes and gotten nothing but a rock hard pedal and almost zero slow down? .
I am amazed that noone on this thread has asked what "IT" IS....

If you attempt to use the brakes and they are "hard" and depressing the pedal does nothing, what state could the brake system be in?

The only way I can imagine the pedal being harder than usual is if the VSC (or BFD) is active and trying to APPLY the brakes itself.
If the ABS is activated, then the only thing the user should notice is a spongy or pulsating pedal. Not a rock hard one.

So what situations can the system apply the brakes and make the pedal feel hard?
As stated above: A rear wheel lifts causing the electronic diff to kick in and try to apply brakes to the wheel that is lifted (spinning).

Is our system a dual "Inline" master cylinder where a single rod moves and applies pressure to front & rear piston circuits?
Or is our system more like the tilton dual master cylinder system where if one cylinder stops moving and you apply more pressure, the other MC moves and applies pressure to the other circuit?

I think understanding how the system works and what could make it act this way is key to getting to the root of the problem.

And that Smart Stop Technology crap doesnt sound right.
If SSTI was stepping in, I dont think I could heel toe during a downshift
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