Track suspension advice

[gramicci101]

I honestly don't need coilovers, aside from the coolness aspect. I was just curious, because I've seen good namebrands go without top mounts, and I know most people consider the OEM top mounts to be a little fluffy.

If and when I get so far in my build that I need adjustable camber beyond a bolt, I'm going to do RCE Tarmac/Bilstein B8 with HVT top mounts.

[SirBrass]

About how much track seat time would you recommend be done on stock suspension before deciding on how exactly (if any) the stock suspension should be modified? Or should that also wait until one has gone to one's desired aftermarket tires and wheels and then deciding where to take the suspension (if anywhere beyond stock)? (btw, just signed up with NASA. going to be registering soon for my first track day HPDE... FINALLY)

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

About how much track seat time would you recommend be done on stock suspension before deciding on how exactly (if any) the stock suspension should be modified? Or should that also wait until one has gone to one's desired aftermarket tires and wheels and then deciding where to take the suspension (if anywhere beyond stock)? (btw, just signed up with NASA. going to be registering soon for my first track day HPDE... FINALLY)

While being able to drive on the stock suspension is a skill on it's own, suspension can be done at any time, IMO.

The problem is, with an inexperienced driver, the setup/preference part is not there, so you need someone to set the car up FOR you.

Power is always recommended against for novices, as you don't want to have that to lean on as a crutch.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The problem is, with an inexperienced driver, the setup/preference part is not there...

Precisely.

As far as power, I've gone with engine back exhaust and tune, and that's where I'm staying for the time being for that exact reason.

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

I honestly don't need coilovers, aside from the coolness aspect. I was just curious, because I've seen good namebrands go without top mounts, and I know most people consider the OEM top mounts to be a little fluffy.

If and when I get so far in my build that I need adjustable camber beyond a bolt, I'm going to do RCE Tarmac/Bilstein B8 with HVT top mounts.

OEM Top Mounts, when mounted correctly, have some compliance in them to reduce the noise and vibration transmitted to the chassis. Also, some sanctions require you to use OEM top mounts based on rules.

Originally Posted by SirBrass

About how much track seat time would you recommend be done on stock suspension before deciding on how exactly (if any) the stock suspension should be modified? Or should that also wait until one has gone to one's desired aftermarket tires and wheels and then deciding where to take the suspension (if anywhere beyond stock)? (btw, just signed up with NASA. going to be registering soon for my first track day HPDE... FINALLY)

The reality is, OEM shocks are actually pretty good from the factory and it's going to be hard to beat for how well they perform and how smooth they operate from the factory. I recommend picking up a set of Raceseng camber plates for the OEM coilover and SPL rear LCA to dial in the desired alignment setup in the future if you intend to stay stock coilovers. This allows you to dial in the car's handling characteristics a little better while having sufficient suspension travel. This also allows you to utilize your tires a little more efficiently. If you don't like the wheel gap, Swift Spec-R springs (released recently) are some of the lightest and best lowering springs on the market.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG David

OEM Top Mounts, when mounted correctly, have some compliance in them to reduce the noise and vibration transmitted to the chassis. Also, some sanctions require you to use OEM top mounts based on rules.



The reality is, OEM shocks are actually pretty good from the factory and it's going to be hard to beat for how well they perform and how smooth they operate from the factory. I recommend picking up a set of Raceseng camber plates for the OEM coilover and SPL rear LCA to dial in the desired alignment setup in the future if you intend to stay stock coilovers. This allows you to dial in the car's handling characteristics a little better while having sufficient suspension travel. This also allows you to utilize your tires a little more efficiently. If you don't like the wheel gap, Swift Spec-R springs (released recently) are some of the lightest and best lowering springs on the market.

How are the Spec-R springs in terms of streetability compared to the Sport springs? Just as good?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

How are the Spec-R springs in terms of streetability compared to the Sport springs? Just as good?

Springs are springs. Spec-R is one of the stiffest optimal spring rate you may want to run on OEM shocks.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Springs are springs. Spec-R is one of the stiffest optimal spring rate you may want to run on OEM shocks.

Meaning? Springs don't really affect ride comfort on uneven (read: street) surfaces?

[CSG David]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

Meaning? Springs don't really affect ride comfort on uneven (read: street) surfaces?

Ride comfort comes from proper valving. Increasing spring rate increases slight roll resistance and also increases weight transfer response. Of all the Spec-R setups I've driven on multiple platforms, they appear to make the car ride a little smoother. The obvious downside to lowering springs in general is decreased suspension travel hence why the Spec-R springs have a minor drop as opposed to other kits on the market. Setup is all about balance.

[SirBrass]

Originally Posted by CSG David

Ride comfort comes from proper valving. Increasing spring rate increases slight roll resistance and also increases weight transfer response. Of all the Spec-R setups I've driven on multiple platforms, they appear to make the car ride a little smoother. The obvious downside to lowering springs in general is decreased suspension travel hence why the Spec-R springs have a minor drop as opposed to other kits on the market.

I'm not all that big on massive drop. Just enough to clean up the looks is all I want. Max drop for me would be 1".

Thanks. This is helping me cross off unnecessary items from my mod list.

[ultra]

Dampers
Alignment (including hardware)
Wheels & tires
Brakes

^ All at once if possible. It's a broader concept of 'suspension' but IMHO you need to consider how everything on the chassis works together when it comes to effective track setup.

If you don't have somebody to set up your dampers for you I'd go with the single adjustable Ohlins given your budget. Not much point in multi adjustable coil overs if you don't know how to set them up. If you have somebody to set the dampers up for you then Bob's your uncle. KWs, Teins, JRZs, whatever. .

I mention tires because there's a pretty big difference between the OEM rubber, extreme performance rubber and the semis licks/slicks that some folks like to run.

Brake upgrades for safety and consistency, plus if you're going to go with a BBK it might influence your wheel & rubber choices.

Alignment is pretty easy to figure out once everything else is dialed in.

Generally speaking, quality parts and fewer variables = less head scratching and more time spent focusing on driving technique.

IMO.

[ddeflyer]

Originally Posted by ultra

Dampers
Alignment (including hardware)
Wheels & tires
Brakes

^ All at once if possible. It's a broader concept of 'suspension' but IMHO you need to consider how everything on the chassis works together when it comes to effective track setup.

If you don't have somebody to set up your dampers for you I'd go with the single adjustable Ohlins given your budget. Not much point in multi adjustable coil overs if you don't know how to set them up. If you have somebody to set the dampers up for you then Bob's your uncle. KWs, Teins, JRZs, whatever. .

I mention tires because there's a pretty big difference between the OEM rubber, extreme performance rubber and the semis licks/slicks that some folks like to run.

Brake upgrades for safety and consistency, plus if you're going to go with a BBK it might influence your wheel & rubber choices.

Alignment is pretty easy to figure out once everything else is dialed in.

Generally speaking, quality parts and fewer variables = less head scratching and more time spent focusing on driving technique.

IMO.

Already done Essex Sprint kit and two different rim and tire combos (have to fit over the BBK) where one is street rubber and the other is track rubber. So I'm at the incremental point of upgrading dampers/coilovers and other alignment controlling components. Well, after I've had the roll bar seats and harnesses installed that is.

[ultra]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

Already done Essex Sprint kit and two different rim and tire combos (have to fit over the BBK) where one is street rubber and the other is track rubber. So I'm at the incremental point of upgrading dampers/coilovers and other alignment controlling components. Well, after I've had the roll bar seats and harnesses installed that is.

That's good info to know. Seems you've put some thought into it and are going for a pretty hard core, track biased setup.

With data like that no doubt that somebody like the CSG guys can cook you up a really focused and effective damper and alignment setup.

If you're going to the extent of roll bars, harnesses and race seats and will be running a BBK with R comps I'm thinking that something really focused such as CSG-fied JRZs would be right up your alley.

[Jason@DSG]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

So I am looking into suspension upgrades with a strong focus on track performance though the car will still be street driven. Right now I only have the whiteline camber bolts; everything else is completely stock. I am budgeting quite a bit for this so all kinds of advice are welcome. That said, I do want to avoid the depths of the diminishing returns curve.

So far from what I have see I think I will need to replace the lower control arms on the rear and get some camber plates on the front. Looking at CSG's site I see alot of options but frankly I am still in the early stages of planning out this round of upgrades so I don't understand alot of the trade offs there.

So the question becomes, what pieces do I realistically need to be upgrading/replacing and what attributes should I focus on? I am having alot of trouble telling which parts are meant to do great things on the track and which are meant for stanced cars?

One of the things to think about, how much track time versus street time? Is this 50/50 track and street or more 10 events per year track and the rest street. This is something I just finished going over with a customer also. Once you start getting into higher-end more Motorsport based Coilovers, depending on what the design is you can severely compromise ride quality. That's why knowing how often you're tracking would be good to know.

Cheers,
Jason